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Talk:Oni

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 August 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pandalily89. Peer reviewers: Ezahnzin.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Setsubun

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  • Edited to include link to Setsubun festival, and changed the translation of "Oni out, good luck in" to instead match the one on that page.

An Oni characters showed up in Arion, Lord of Atlantis.

"Oni in Modern Culture"

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I removed this:

  • Oni are the demon like creatures that inhabit the Chaos Realm in the Mortal Kombat series. Mainly shown in Mortal Kombat: Deception.

Are they really that important to Mortal Kombat as a whole? A simple random appearance of an oni in something is hardly notable. It's like listing every appearance of demons in the demon article. If I had my druthers, I'd avoid any "in popular culture" section altogether (they're magnets for cruft and non-notability, and they grow like cancer), but if we add one, it ought to focus on places where oni are important to the fictional work under discussion. — BrianSmithson 15:50, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I dont believe that it Needed to be removed. Oni are Oni not just demons, specifically Japanese demons. They appear in very few places outside of Japan. Saying that its like listing any appearance of demons is incorrect. Oni are very specific. And yes it is important the Oni Warlord is the first boss in the Mortal Combat: Shaolin Monks game, and with him there was a large group of Oni. Maybe not Important to the entire series but the Oni do play a large part at least in the Shaolin monks part of the saga. I vote for re wording it and putting it back in. Jesheckah

Huh? The "in popular culture" section of this article is already as long as my arm. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. — BrianSmithson 22:24, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ne, oni means ogre child.

How about the oni from Kamen Rider Hibiki? Neo Guyver (talk) 17:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Disguise

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I always though that oni disguised themselves as attractive women...What mythical creature is this I'm thinking of? --Josquius 23:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway if this article is really to have a list of oni from anime, shouldn't Urusei Yatsura be at the top of this list? That reminds me, there's no mention of oni in the Urusei Yatsura article.

Jackie Chan Adventures

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The Oni were the topic of an entire season of Jackie Chan Adventures, season 4, where the king of the Oni was named Tarakudo. Is this significant enough to add?PokeHomsar (talk) 20:54, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Origins

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The Gaki and Ushi-Tora theories seem sensible, but I always heard that Oni were the Asian interpretation of caucasian people, whom they might have met on extremely rare occasion... Being extremely tall, having wild colorful hair, big round eyes, big ears and noses, etc. Even the metal clubs... well no, I think they had gunpowder before Europeans did.. but still. I can't cite the source, but I think it was an old version of Momotaro with an appendix in the back theorizing about the origins of Oni.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 04:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not without a reputable source. --Human.v2.0 (talk) 04:50, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not what without a reputable source? God, Wikipedia nowadays. In any case, the source ~exists~ I just don't remember for sure what it was. Someone's publication of Momotaro. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 23:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since I assume both good faith and reasonable intelligence from folks, I therefor assumed that you were know I meant "what" to be "statements that Oni are Asian interpretation of Caucasian people", also known as "the entire point of your posting in its entirety." It's not something that I personally feel like hunting down to find out if there's even any merit to it; you are the one that brings it up, so it falls to you to do the initial legwork if you want to include something that is going appear as ridiculous without sourcing.--Human.v2.0 (talk) 18:01, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oni also means demon in Ainu, doesn't this indicate that the concept was passed down from the Jomon? Could also be that the Ainu adopted the Japanese word, if someone knows that is the case please reply, I couldn't find anything in my research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:7F2:88A:FA1B:6C3B:4111:8854:9001 (talk) 02:59, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A Japanese article from 2013 entitled "Formation of the Demon of Pestilence and its Influence in Japan: －Etymology of the Word 鬼 (Oni or Ogre) and its Relationship with Onryo (Grudge-Bearing Spirits) and Goryo (Evil Spirits)" had proposed an alternate etymological root for oni and why the Chinese character for dead spirits was the one adopted for it, found here with an English abstract and here in the full original Japanese. Though I don't know how much has been discussed since on the topic, it may be something worthwhile to note in the Origins section of the article. 82.73.224.206 (talk) 20:06, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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Literature about oni stretches back 1500 years, what makes "popular culture" particularly important? Shii (tock) 20:53, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For the same reason that many articles have an equivalent, be it "popular culture" or something like this. It's relevant information. The information is too focused for a disambiguation page, but it's still valid mentioned and even better to have it in a non-list form. I try to prune additions to this category since it is used too loosely, but removal just isn't in the cards. --Human.v2.0 (talk) 00:49, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Venture brothers

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There was an episode of the Venture Brothers where Doctor Venture is being followed by an oni. This should be in the pop culture section--67.86.120.246 (talk) 02:38, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oni in Little Kings story

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Oni's are in little kings story, so we should add that in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.74.228.81 (talk) 00:05, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

move to the northeast

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What does the capitol moving have to do with the oni's relationship to the northeast?--Slowlikemolasses (talk) 04:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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I disagree with completely removing this section. However, I agree the list was far too bloated and should be trimmed to a few select entries. Here is the list that was removed:

  1. In Capcom's video game saga Onimusha where the protagonist wields the power of the Oni, and retells the History of Japan with supernatural elements.
  2. In Rumiko Takahashi's Urusei Yatsura, the female lead, Lum Invader, is an oni alien depicted wearing a tiger-skin bikini and the entire alien race to which she belongs is fashioned after the classical concept of oni.
  3. Chie Shinohara's manga Ao no Fuuin uses oni as a main theme when the female protagonist is a descendant of a beautiful oni queen who wants to resurrect her kind.
  4. Japanese symphonic/progressive rock band Shingetsu (新●月) included a piece titled "Oni" (鬼) in their first album. According to Akira Hanamoto, the writer of the song, the oni depicted in this piece is more spirit-like and has no features that would distinguish it as a separate physical entity. While it appears to retain some of the grisly traits of its physical counterparts—enough to make a goat tremble—it is also revealed to be quite timid as it "takes flight" apparently at the sight of a hissing cat.
  5. Takahashi's Ranma 1/2 features a story in which one of the characters, Kasumi Tendo, is possessed by an oni, causing her to behave in uncharacteristically "evil" (yet humorous) ways.
  6. The Touhou Project series of shoot-'em-up games has a character named Suika Ibuki, an oni with a massive gourd on her back capable of producing an endless amount of sake; legend has it that no one has seen her sober in her 700-year life. A later game in the series marked the appearance of Yuugi Hoshiguma, Suika's oni associate from a group of four incredibly powerful oni that they both belong to, called the "Four Devas of the Mountains." Yuugi, despite being as great a drinker as Suika while being just as cheerful, is even less of a lightweight than Suika, being able to enter into a fight without seeming intoxicated or even spilling any of the sake in her sake dish.
  7. In the Mortal Kombat universe, the denizens of the Netherrealm (the series' equivalent of hell) are called Oni (though they represent a drastic deviation from the Japanese concept, being primitive ape-like demons), and the oni character Drahmin's right arm is replaced by a metal club. Another Oni fighter of the series is Moloch.
  8. In Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, an Oni called King Yemma runs the Check-In Station in Other World, where he decides which souls go to Heaven and which to Hell.
  9. The Onis are featured in Season 4 of Jackie Chan Adventures. Tarakudo (voiced by Miguel Ferrer) is the King of the Onis. There are 9 other Oni masks that when worn, the demon trapped in the masks can take over the users well-being and able to control their own tribe of the Shadowkhan.
  10. In Hellboy: Sword of Storms, Hellboy fought a giant Oni. Before the final blow can be struck with the Sword of Storms, the Oni fades away so that Hellboy can break the Sword of Storms on the statue releasing the brothers Thunder and Lightning.
  11. Kamen Rider Hibiki, a Japanese tokusatsu series, uses Oni (which is what the Kamen Riders here are referred as) as a main theme of the series. It tells the story about ancient battle between the Oni and the Makamou. In another popular tokusatsu, the Ultra series, it is not uncommon for Oni to appear and do battle with an Ultraman.
  12. Hyakujuu Sentai Gaoranger, Ogre Tribe Org is the main antagonist to fight the Gaorangers and Power Animals.
  13. In the popular Japanese manga series One Piece, one of the four emperors Kaido shares similarities with an Oni in both appearance and power.
  14. In Pokémon, Electabuzz shares similarities with the oni. Sawk and Throh are meant to resemble the blue oni and the red oni, respectively.
  15. In The Venture Brothers season two episode "I Know Why the Caged Bird Kills", Dr. Venture is haunted by a floating Oni which has followed him from Japan.
  16. In the video game Muramasa: The Demon Blade, Oni are one of the various enemies the main characters battle.
  17. In Rumiko Takahashi's manga InuYasha, Oni are common Yokai in the series.
  18. In the first-person shooter series Shadow Warrior, the protagonist is fighting demonic entities that bear a strong resemblance to Onis.
  19. The 'Oni' are a form of Samurai inspired NPCs (Non Playable Characters) in Crystal Dynamics' 2013 video game release 'Tomb Raider'
  20. In the MMORPG "Onigiri" the player's character is an 'Oni'
  21. In Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition a more powerful "unleashed" form of Akuma is named Oni and features claws, fangs, and horns similar to classical depictions of oni.
  22. In Yo-kai Watch, many of the creatures found are based on oni. Oni themselves appear as a class of boss enemies. They are distinct between each other, but all have horns. Some also have either claws, horns, or both.
  23. In the MTV television show Teen Wolf, the Oni were a primary villan, aiding to both Noshiko Yukimura and the Nogitsune during Season 3 part 2.
  24. In the Supernatural novel Rite of Passage, an oni is the main enemy, terrorizing the town of Laurel Hills, New Jersey and causing a chain of disasters that kills hundreds of people. Eventually its realized that the oni is after the three children it sired with human women eighteen years before. At the end of the story, the oni is killed by Bobby Singer with a rifle shot through its third eye after its separated from its kanabo, the thing that makes it invincible.
  25. In the video game "Toukiden: Kiwami" the main character is called a slayer, or "demons that hunt demons" and the character's main purpose is to defend the village from a variety of Oni.
  26. Heavy Metal band Trivium's seventh studio album Silence in the Snow contains an Oni mask on the front.
  27. WWE At the WWE Network special beast in the east, live in Tokyo Japan. Finn Bálor appeared in war paint that resembled a oni on his back. And Aswell as Spider-Man eyes.
  28. Oni is the name of a video game for Mac OS, Windows and PS2 released in 2001 by Bungie Software.
  29. In the tabletop RPG Dungeons & Dragons, onis, also called ogre mages, is a relative of ogres. They are massive blue humanoids with large, tooth filled mouths. They are also experienced magic-users, and can fly, turn invisible, disguise themselves as other humanoids, and turn into mist. They are often depicted as boogeymen.
  30. In the game Overwatch the character Genji can use a skin that depicts him as an oni

Which ones should be kept? Please include references that support keeping the entry. @Harizotoh9: since they removed the list. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:42, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've replaced the item regarding Hiroshi Aramata's novel (and removed it from this list) because it has a reference that indicates why it's important. I also numbered the items in the list above to make them easier to reference while discussing them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:48, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think the following items are too trivial to include: 1, 4-10, 12-16, 18-28, and 30. That leaves 2-3, 11, 17, and 29 as ones which I think might be able to be included. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:53, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oni are so ubiquitous, I could add a new appearance in pop culture to this list almost every day. Trying to identify one as being more notable than the other is a waste of time. So there must be a third-party source that discusses the importance of the portrayal beyond a simple mention that e.g. "this new manga is based on oni". The entry currently in the article, with a quote from a university professor, is a good example of what should be required. I can't see why any one of those numbered above should be included. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:28, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In the cases where Oni is the name of a character or a class of characters, these would be placed in Oni (disambiguation) anyway. I don't know if it's worth making a list of oni like with list of vampires. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:52, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's a long list of completely inane anime and video game pop trivia. Why would readers care about this? How does this help a reader better understand the concept of an Oni? It's only of interest to an incredibly small niche of people. Also Wikipedia is supposed to be a serious scholarly encyclopedia for all time. Imagine someone reading this in the year 3000. Would any of them care about these examples? It's just 20 to 21st century pop culture nonsense. They would care about the actual Japanese mythology. And if you were to read a serious physical encyclopedia, they wouldn't be listing such trivial infromation. So is Wikipeida supposed to be a serious scholarly academic endeavour, or does it serve to make list of pop culture nonsense?

I'm citing several policies here:

1. WP:Fancruft - It's just info about anime/games/tv that doesn't belong here. 2. WP:Trivia - It's just inane pop culture trivia. It is by definition unimportant, tangential, trivial information. 3. WP:Recentism - The mythology of Oni has existed for a long time. Yet much of the article focuses on pop-culture depictions in the last 20-30 years? Why does this get to be nearly half the article?

Harizotoh9 (talk) 05:15, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Harizotoh9: None of those are policies. Two are essays (okay, one is an "explanatory supplement" that specifically states it is neither a guideline nor a policy, but that basically means it's an essay) and one is a guideline. And I don't see anyone advocating placing every possible mention of oni into the article. If you're seeing that, please point it out specifically.
What I wrote in my initial comment is that "I disagree with completely removing this section." I then followed up by pointing out that the vast majority of what was on the list was too trivial for inclusion. I then listed only five of them might merit inclusion. That would, of course, be only if there were sources which indicated why they were important to include. I see nothing wrong with including a few carefully curated examples of oni in popular culture as long as they have solid refs that support their cultural impact. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:11, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The Concept of Oni has existed for thousands of years. Why focus at all on media that has been released in the last few decades? Why is it important? There's thousands of stories that include Oni. Just because it has third party sources, does not mean it needs to be included at all. Did this media radically alter how the public sees Oni? Maybe in that case. Otherwize, it's just trivia and completely off topic. And even then, it might not warrant inclusion because of its recent nature. Again, Wiki is supposed to be a timeless encyclopedia. There's nothing special about the last few decades at all. Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:11, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The rest of the article deals with everything else about oni. And again, you're reading way too much into what I'm writing here. I never said that "just because it has third party sources" that it should be included. Not even once. Whether it is recent or not is really irrelevant if it can be shown through reliable sources (since there are obviously no first party sources for oni) that it has had a significant impact (as is the case with the one I replaced into the article).
Your view that all "In popular culture" sections are bad (at least that's how you are coming across) is far too extreme. I agree with you that many (if not most) entries in such sections are not worth keeping there due to being merely trivia. However, there are cases where it is good to have a particular entry. Any such entries should have a strong reliable source giving a solid reason why it should be included. That's all I'm saying. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:31, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I honestly don't see a single item in the list that could be justified. They're all fluff. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:08, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Now, the last remaining example is the Hiroshi Aramata novel. Now, in the thousands of years of Oni mythology, why should this be singled out? What is so special about it? I argue it should also be removed. Harizotoh9 (talk) 07:28, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's there because the reference it has specifically explains why it's relevant and important to this page. Apparently you missed that part up above. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:24, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a few years late, but I do think that pop culture is important in that it changes people's perception of a given thing. To you (Harizotoh9), it doesn't seem to merit scholarly attention, but to me, it seems very worthwhile, because it's a study of yet another facet of human society. But if we were to say that pop culture is just "nonsense" or "fluff", then we should just delete every single article about a pop culture product on Wikipedia, shouldn't we? But that's not how Wikipedia operates, because it's exactly as you said, Wikipedia is for all of time. So what makes pop culture unfit for this definition? Why is "recent" not included in "all of time"? Both these contradictions in your suggestions and the way you're looking down on pop culture just because you personally think it's "inane" and "nonsense" are grounds enough that your reasoning does not hold water. At any rate, I do agree completely with Nihonjoe and his list of pop culture entries that should be included in the article. Something like Urusei Yatsura, in particular, is extremely popular and well-known in its homeland of Japan (less so outside of Japan, admittedly). I don't have any sources for this, though, or for the pop culture list for that matter. Oh well! Hulkhogan121212 (talk) 01:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weren’t Oni once humans

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I’m not entirely sure if this is true but I have read sources claiming that Oni in folklore were once humans corrupted by evil things. I’m not entirely sure if this is based on actual folklore or merely a modern day view.CycoMa (talk) 07:16, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is true that there are some stories where humans are described as turning into oni (e.g. Shuten Dōji, the Hashihime of Uji), but as a whole there's really no single answer as to what oni exactly are. I mean, they might be characterized as evil in some folktales (Momotarō comes to mind) but there are certain stories and places where they are considered to be benevolent beings and even worshiped as gods. Pat457 (talk) 10:26, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oni&action=edit“The Book of yōkai : Mysterious Creatures of Japanese Folklore : Foster, Michael Dylan, 1965- Author : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming.” Internet Archive, Berkeley : University of California Press, 1 Jan. 1970, archive.org/details/isbn_9780520271029. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oni&action=editChiba, Kotaro. Tales of Japan: Traditional Stories of Monsters and Magic. Chronicle Books, 2019. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oni&action=editFujita, Hiroko, et al. Folktales from the Japanese Countryside. Libraries Unlimited, 2008. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oni&action=edit“Japanese Demon Lore : Oni, from Ancient Times to the Present : Reider, Noriko T : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming.” Internet Archive, Logan, Utah : Utah State University Press, 1 Jan. 1970, archive.org/details/JapaneseDemonLore/page/n3/mode/2up. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oni&action=edit“Oni.” Handbook of Japanese Mythology, by Michael Ashkenazi, ABC-CLIO, 2003, pp. 230–233. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oni&action=editReider, Noriko T. Seven Demon Stories from Medieval Japan. Utah State University Press, 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oni&action=editRoberts, Jeremy. Japanese Mythology A to Z. Chelsea House Publishers, 2010.Pandalily89 (talk) 08:23, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: HUM 202 - Introduction to Mythology

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): CiaelShiroi (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Knight-Errant of the Mesa.

— Assignment last updated by Rockethound (talk) 21:56, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An idea for a redirect

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From "Japanese ogre" to Oni#In_popular_culture (because of the emoji). 195.187.108.130 (talk) 14:06, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: HUM 202 - Introduction to Mythology

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mythgirlie23 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Mythgirlie23 (talk) 04:13, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Genshin Impact (2020) has a playable character that is an oni, Arataki Itto, with his being an oni being important to his character; as well as his character being an important one to the game as a 5 star character with a role in several events. AverageLinkEnjoyer (talk) 11:33, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a reliable source discussing the character and his ethnicity, please feel free to add him. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 14:39, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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