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Talk:Formula One racing

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Pre-Qualifying

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The section on the history of the 107% rule is wrong.

DNQ came about from the time when there were more teams, and therefore more cars, than could be permitted on the track for the race. The number permitted in the race used to vary from circuit to circuit (You can imagine that Monaco has a rather lower capacity than Silverstone), but was standardised at 26, presumably in the 1980s when Bernie and the FIA were busy standardising everything else. Only the quickest 26 would qualify for the race, the others were DNQ.

Pre-Qualifying is another matter again. In the late 1980s and early 1990s there were so many cars trying to qualify for each race (well over 30 if memory serves) that there were too many even for the qualification session (it's only an hour and you can imagine the difficulties of trying to squeeze everyone on - it's bad enough now with only 22). A pre-qualification session for new teams and the teams with the worst record over the preceding 6 months allowed two cars into the qualifying session proper of about 30 cars. This has got nothing whatever to do with the 107% rule.

The 107% rule only came about in (I think) the mid 1990s, when the number of teams started dropping so far that there were only 26 cars entered for each race anyway. There was therefore no prospect of anyone failing to qualify for the race, no matter how poor (Think Andrea Moda or Lola's Mastercard sponsored effort). Precisely because there had recently been a number of joke teams, the rule ensured that if you turned up with a comedy car and only an approximate idea of what you were doing and couldn't get within 107% of the pole-sitters time, you wouldn't get into the race.

The fact that there are now only 22 cars (less than the limit for the race1) is not therefore the reason for the 107% rule being dropped - what I'm trying to remember is why they did change it. If I remember, I'll come back and amend the article. I don't know that all the historical stuff needs to be in here, just an accurate reflection of why 107% has been dropped. A note on what the qualification rules for each season were would be useful in each of the season summaries, though.

107% rule came in in 1996 I believe. mattbuck 20:21, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It was dropped in 2003 while the one-lap qualifying was introduced, because it would have been unfair in the system. BleuDXXXIV 19:43, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1. The limit on cars in a race has recently dropped to 24 - I'm not sure that's anything to do with racing necessity so much as the reluctance of the teams to divide up the pie with too many others. 4u1e


I can confirm that most, if not everything, that 4u1e wrote above is correct. I belive that only 20 cars was allowed in the race at Monaco for quite some time. I just checked the race archive in grandprix.com and it gives an example of prequalifing in 1989: 38 cars were entered so on friday morning 12 cars were reduced to 4 for the real qualifing. /Kakis 2006-05-06

Qualifying

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107% rule was introduced in 1996 when there was a new qualfying format. DNPQ was actually discontinued at the end of 1992. 107% rule was i think that it didn't matter because teams were more competitive. Pattav2 11:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Qualifying time

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"The qualifying hour is split into three 15-minute sessions, with seven-minute breaks in between." - this is no longer valid (Q1 is longer, Q3 is shorter), somebody please correct this. / 2008-03-20 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.24.204.196 (talk) 14:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment

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I assessed this as a start class article, but with references it surely could be B-class Guroadrunner (talk) 06:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Template:out of date

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I've marked the page as out of date since:

  • While the qualifying has been adapted to the current season with a tacked-on sentence, the section needs to be reworked -- the beginning still reads as if we're in 2006. It should mostly describe what it's like now, and perhaps add a historical remark for the difference to 2006.
  • There's a remark on the Concorde Agreement due to end 2007.

78.52.196.52 (talk) 10:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Might have been quicker to do it yourself, mind. 4u1e (talk) 13:13, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Race

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This page says:

"after a random length of time (one to nine seconds), the red lights are turned off"

but the page named Formula_One_regulations says:

"and then go out simultaneously after an interval of between four and seven seconds"

What is the correct interval? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.190.108.238 (talk) 22:17, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Abu Dhabi

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Does Abu Dhabi start on Sunday afternoon local time? Mobile mundo (talk) 17:49, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Qualifying Session

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Just wanted to ask what is a Qualifying Session? The part that talks about it talks about its History but doenst mention what exactly it is(And if it does then I didnt see it)(And also sorry for my bad English) (2804:29C4:170:B700:A487:1361:1904:E738 (talk) 21:50, 1 October 2020 (UTC))[reply]
Uh I'm not sure what this part here is about so I'll just write something random... #StarWarsTheCloneWarsIsTheBestStarWarsSeriesEverMadeInMyOpinionAtLeast

Hi 2804:29C4:170:B700:A487:1361:1904:E738. A qualifying session is a session held to determine the order in which the cars will line up for the start of the race. In simplistic terms, the driver who sets the fastest time in qualifying starts at the front and the driver who sets the slowest time starts at the back. DH85868993 (talk) 01:29, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 April 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus is that Formula One Grand Prix is ambiguous, subject to interpretation, and has no primary topic. (non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 10:45, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– Disambugation page was moved to Formula One Grand Prix (disambiguation). Eurohunter (talk) 08:30, 23 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisted. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 22:14, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: due to the recent page move, Formula One Grand Prix now titles a page with significant content and so it must also be dispositioned. If this request is granted, then Formula One Grand Prix will be moved to Formula One Grand Prix (disambiguation). This request has been altered to reflect that fact. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 19:30, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eurohunter: I don't understand. How that is a rationale to move this page?
SSSB (talk) 08:48, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SSSB: I can't move itself. It was under "Formula One Grand Prix" name previously but someone moved it because he couldn't create disambugation then. Eurohunter (talk) 08:52, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eurohunter: the pages' logs say that this has always been the location of this article.
SSSB (talk) 09:05, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SSSB: No. It was here ("Moving so can create disamb page"). The main article is "Formula One Grand Prix" and its "List of Formula One Grands Prix" (both could be integrated as "Formula One Grand Prix" if they were shorter - but they are long enough). Eurohunter (talk) 09:15, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - The WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the proposed title would be List of Formula One Grands Prix, this page doesn't describe the events it describes the proceedings and this is therefore the optimal title. The user making the proposal claims qualifying doesn't meet their own personal definition of a "race" and has made numerous changes without consensus to other pages on those grounds. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 08:58, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Strongly disagree that the primary topic would be the list. Someone looking up Formula One Grand Prix is very likely to be looking up what a Grand Prix involves. You yourself have suggested that people may not know what a Grand Prix is.
    SSSB (talk) 09:07, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:PRECISE. Looking at the article's contents, the proposed title is exacltly what the article is describing. This article includes information that shouldn't be present in an article called "Formula One racing" as well as missing information that should be present in an article called "Formula One racing". However, it perfectly reflect the content you would expect to find in an article called "Formula One Grand Prix", that is this article explains what a "Formula One Grand Prix" is.
    SSSB (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikidata is waiting for fixed name. Eurohunter (talk) 18:07, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I can't work out what the nom's rationale is, but I will address what SSSB has said: I think the current name better describes what this article is about. It has the usual schedule for each event, how it proceeds, and then what happens after (with regard to podiums and points). I also will point to mine and other's comments on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One#Opening sentence of lead section of articles about Grands Prix pointing out that in many sources and in common usage the term "Grand Prix" only refers to the race, not the surrounding events (and no, I'm not saying always). I feel that this article should be somewhat like sections/articles for other sports which outline how an event progresses etc, eg Baseball#Rules and gameplay. A7V2 (talk) 11:57, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The only thing that the discussion at WikiProject Formula One shows is that the meaning of "Grand Prix" is open to interpretation. If your interprtation is that "Grand Prix" refers to the weekend, then my rational holds. In the event that "Grand Prix" only refers to the race, then this article descibes what happens in the event that has the Grand Prix as part of it, so my rational holds.
    This article descibes the events that happen in a Grand Prix weekend, and therefore I would go as far as to argue that renaming this page would make it consistent with the naming of 2017 British Grand Prix, which describes the events that happened in a specific Grand Prix event.
    SSSB (talk) 07:49, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SSSB: Apologies for not being a bit clearer that I'm not trying to say you are wrong (if that makes sense) but merely that I disagree (by "but I will address what SSSB has said" I meant as opposed to the unclear rationale provided by the nom). To slightly rephrase what I said above, I believe that "Formula One racing" is a better way of expressing the idea of "Formula One Gameplay" than the proposed title. A7V2 (talk) 11:36, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'll just say this, practice isn't racing. If this is "Formula One gameplay" as opposed to "What happens during an F1 race weekend" (of which the Grand Prix is the either the main part, or the event as a whole, depending on your interpretation), then shouldn't this article discuss testing? car design? These are parts of "Formula One gameplay". If testing isn't included (as it isn't competitve, so not gameplay but preperation/practice for the "gameplay"), why is practice included? In terms of "Formula One gameplay" don't have have similar significance?
SSSB (talk) 11:43, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're right that there are aspects of this article which aren't strictly "racing" but I don't agree that a name which isn't ideal should be replaced by a name which is worse/less suitable (which it is in my opinion for reasons already given). Additionally, surely you would agree that qualifying etc is a part of the sport which can be called "motor racing", even if not all of it is "racing". Should Anthony Pritchard's "The Motor Racing Year" books be renamed because they also discuss qualifying and practice (of course not, and the same for the countless other books with titles including the word "racing")? As far as I can tell, other sports don't have articles named in the way proposed (ie named for the generic event name as opposed to specific events, of course), like test match, cricket match, soccer game, football game etc, are all either redlinks or disambiguation pages. The trouble is what else could this article be called, and I'm not sure there is anything else really apart from . A7V2 (talk) 12:34, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I know I implied that it was my final comment, but...
As far as football game goes, Formula One Grand Prix and Formula One racing are just as bad as each other. The problem is that Formula One is too long to include the info in this article there. As far as I am aware, motorsport is the only sport with such a wide variation in how events are structured. So comparing this to any other sport is just silly.
Additionally, surely you would agree that qualifying etc is a part of the sport which can be called "motor racing", even if not all of it is "racing". - that is exactly my point. Testing fits within that etc, but its not included in this article, seemingly because it doesn't take place during an F1 weekend. The current scope of the article text is "what happens during an F1 race weekend", but the article title (in my opinion) suggest a different scope.
SSSB (talk) 13:05, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eurohunter: I disagree. I'm not going to go around in circles about this. What makes you suggest it was moved "incorrectly"? And I still don't, and likely never will, agree that "Grand Prix" generally refers to the whole weekend/event. A7V2 (talk) 23:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@A7V2: 00:51, 16 August 2005 Johnteslade talk contribs moved page Formula One Grand Prix to Formula One Grand Prix (PSP) (Moving so can create disamb page) so he moved Formula One Grand Prix to Formula One racing becaus he needed to make Formula One Grand Prix disambugtion. It was done incorrectly because article "Formula One Grand Prix" is dominating and dismbugation page should be under Formula One Grand Prix (disambiguation). "(...) I still don't, and likely never will, agree that "Grand Prix" generally refers to the whole weekend/event (...) so what is this? Nonsense. I'm surprised that basic obvious things not obvious for some people. I can't understand how someone can not see what Grand Prix is or calling "race" a "Grand Prix". How you got it? Eurohunter (talk) 06:49, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As I said in my oppose above, see my comments on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One#Opening sentence of lead section of articles about Grands Prix where I and HumanBodyPiloter5 give several examples of reliable sources using the term to refer to the race only, and a few others agree with this. I don't appreciate what you appear to be insinuating with comments like "Nonsense. I'm surprised that basic obvious things not obvious for some people" and I'm not going to be lectured on the use of the English language by someone writing I can't understand how someone can not see what Grand Prix is or calling "race" a "Grand Prix". How you got it?. A7V2 (talk) 11:30, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The consensus in that discussion is that the definition of Grand Prix is open to interpretation. The contents of that discussion can be used in either side of the arguement, but, as I explain above (imo) this article can be moved regardless of what the definition of "Grand Prix" is. More importantly, is there any need for you two to be so agressive?
SSSB (talk) 11:36, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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