User talk:Drmies/Archive 25

In answer to your edit summary query

Yes: "A Confederate monument, the product of a three-year fundraising effort by the Ladies Memorial Association, was, in the words of the association president, Mildred Lewis Rutherford (an arch-Confederate who later became principal of the Lucy Cobb Institute), 'reared on high' June 3, 1872, 'so our children's children may from it learn how our own brave ones died'" (Thomas, Frances Taliaferro A Portrait of Historic Athens & Clarke County, 2e, page125-126). LadyofShalott 01:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• Mildred Lewis Rutherford is now live. LadyofShalott 01:20, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Excellent. Well done Lady. Drmies (talk) 02:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks. LadyofShalott 02:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
      • And now you can add another wikilink. Drmies (talk) 02:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Followup / background

Hi Drmies, wrt this cooking crisis of yours, my first thought on seeing your Q was to say don't get too hung up on precise amounts in recipes, I've moved beyond that to just throwing in whatever seems right or uses up a whole something-or-other. This of course is patently untrue when baking (which I don't generally do), precision amounts of the baking components like salt, sugar, eggs, flour, baking soda, etc. are pretty important if you want something edible. Just as background info, if you're not already aware of it, I would highly recommend you obtain a copy of McGee's On Food and Cooking [1]. It has really excellent descriptions of the physical properties of various ingredients and exactly why they get used where they do, all explained for the layman who doesn't have a mass spectrometer in their kitchen. For instance, before reading it, it never occurred to me that the reason you can't refrigerate raw fish for any length of time is that you're just replicating the temperature at which all their enzymatic processes happen while they're alive. Well worth the investment IMO. Regards! Franamax (talk) 06:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• Franamax, that looks incredibly geeky interesting. The Ph.D. version of Alton Brown? As it turns out, if I had used double the amount of hazelnuts the custard would have been inedibly thick (it sets up a bit after cooling down), and I would have spent not one but two hours shelling and rubbing skins. It was delicious, by the way. I'm getting an Amazon order together anyway--it will look great in a big box with this and this and this and this. Thanks again! Drmies (talk) 15:20, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, a book on segregation, sugar cones, a Crazy Horse video, and a bench vise - sounds like you have quite a party planned, I might have to skip it though. :) Amazon sure has come a long way, I mean, sugar cones? I bet they still can't cook a steak the right way though, and I hear they use too much basil in their salad dressing. If you haven't ordered already thros this one in too. Franamax (talk) 23:52, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I read this post last night and I also thought of Alton Brown. I haven't had cable for a couple of years, so I was surprised Good Eats had gone RIP. I cried. Bgwhite (talk) 23:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

You should take a look at Iron Chef America which he hosts, if only for the width and breadth of culinary knowledge he displays as he describes the meals the chefs are preparing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Bg, then this link is for you also, since you're a pussy. Ha! Yes, Good Eats is one of my all-time favorite TV shows. Also, I wish I could get Iron Chef--the real Iron Chef-- on DVD. Fran, yes, sugar. I've ordered nib sugar from them, but next time I'm getting the other brand (cheaper). I ordered your microbe book as well. It better be good, since $4 is a lot of money. Drmies (talk) 00:08, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe the original Iron Chef is good, but I just don't get Iron Chef America: they get the mystery ingredient and don't need even a second of time to decide what to do with it, and have all the right other ingredients mysteriously easy to hand, then we get "Chef Cat Cora is using a large knife to slice an onion!!" and "Chef Bobby Flay is putting a pan in the oven with what appears to be food on it, possibly to heat the food up!!". Even when they have the Canadian chefs on, I still can't get excited, since there's no body-checking allowed. Drmies, enjoy The Secret House, but don't blame me if you never want to touch toothpaste, potato chips/crisps, or your pillow ever again. :) Franamax (talk) 01:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

As with all reality shows, I assume there is an element of "cheating" for the purposes of the entertainment value of the show. Either the chefs know in advance what the mystery ingredient is so that they can think through what they're going to prepare and have the ingredients handy, or there's a period of time between the revealing of the ingredient and the beginning of the "battle" in which the chefs can gather their ingredients, or the chefs are told in advance to prepare for a number of different possible secrets ingredients or something, because you are correct, you can't see the ingredient, decide what to cook, and then have everything you need at hand without some advance prep. This bit of deception doesn't particularly bother me because, hey - it's show business, and that's what I do, too. In any case, every so-called "reality" show is scripted to some extent, some more and some less, because unscripted reality has a tendency to be either boring or anarchic, and the only way to present something interesting is to impose some kind of organization on it in the form of a storyline. The good shows keep the mechanisms well hidden, and the bad shows -- well, they're just bad. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:37, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, bottom line is that I'm just not good at suspending reality. I watched Mantracker once and wondered why he had so much trouble tracking those people who ran fast and light, when he could just follow the footprints of the crew with the cameras and the umbrella light-focussing thingy, or watch for the dust-trail from the catering truck. OTOH, the shows where people wriggle down into little cracks in deep caves and take a camera in with them, those shows totally freak me out. Franamax (talk) 03:17, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I love it when someone on one of the shows starts worrying because they're lost in the middle of nowhere and how will they get back?!? etc. etc. -- just borrow the cameraman's cell phone, dude! That's one thing I like about Dirty Jobs and, to a lesser extent, Mythbusters, they don't pretend they're not surrounded by video crews with cameras, sound booms and recorders. (Actually, it may sound otherwise, but I watch very few "reality" shows. The ones I've mentioned here and American Pickers is about it. I prefer well-written well-acted programs and films, and sports - baseball, tennis and, recently, football.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:26, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

<--I like satire. I'm watching the Republican debate right now. Drmies (talk) 03:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I had a heart attack when I was 50; I can't put that amount of stress on myself anymore. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Does that mean you can't see what FOX News has to say? Drmies (talk) 04:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, that's good news -- except, of course, that FOX News is not exactly the most reliable of sources; but since it's actually an AP report, I guess it's OK. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I've been off sulking after Drmies' wholly founded comment, sorry for missing the fun. If I remember right, on Iron Chef America, the chefs learn about the "secret" ingredient 45 minutes ahead of time. There is a coin flip before the show on who presents first. The chefs can bring some of their own "special ingredients". I can't remember the ending exactly, but they get a certain amount of time to finish off their food before serve it to the judges. They do two shows in one day. I do miss the Japanese version.... mmmm, trout ice cream. I got into cooking by watching the Frugal Gourmet in the 80s. Unfortunately, he was a Methodist minister playing a Catholic priest. Thanks for the Fox News report Drmies. I'm married, what good is that report for me? It just makes me remember the life before the wife. I'm going to go off and cry again. Bgwhite (talk) 06:13, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Re: ICA - I figured out the part about finishing off their dishes after the end of the battle -- it had to be, since they only plated one dish during the battle and they actually needed four of each (3 judges and the "Chairman"). I'm not sure about the coin flip -- my memory is that the Iron Chef always presents last. 45 minutes before makes sense, and since the studio is located in Chelsea Market they can easily get any special ingredients they need downstairs. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

OK, I've gotta chime in here. As for Alton Brown and Good Eats, my favorite character has to be "W" played by Vickie Eng. She is so dismissive of and superior to our Mr. Brown - that's ultra middle-aged sexy in my book. I also enjoy Iron Chef America, though the chairman's nephew is fake, and also Chopped where Ted Allen reigns supreme. That guy is cool. But when Beyond My Ken talks about reality shows where the stars don't pretend that they aren't followed around by cameramen, my favorite is Huell Howser, host of California's Gold. For the benefit of you poor folks who don't live in the great state of California (or live where TV stations carry California's Gold), here's the setup: Huell Howser is a hillbilly from Tennessee, with the authentic accent and an earnest attitude to match. He came to California 30 years ago, and just loves the Golden State. He's for real. So he travels all over the state (sometimes accidentally careening into adjoining areas of Oregon, Nevada and Arizona that are somehow related to California history), visiting historic and scenic sites, and filming segments about how wonderful California is. His cameraman is named "Louie", and good ole' Huell will often say, "Wow, Louie, I don't know if the camera is pickin' this up!. Move over here, Louie, and get a better shot!" It is just adorable, and I've taken my family to many fascinating places that Huell and Louie have discovered. It's shown on PBS stations, and he always plugs the libraries. Check it out on YouTube. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:20, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

<--"ultra middle-aged sexy"--Cullen, I'm facebooking Mrs. Cullen immediately. (I agree with you, though.) As for TV shows one must watch: note my recent redirect, Brohoof. Alright, Bronies? Drmies (talk) 17:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• Waffle cakes! Waffle cakes! Wa-f-fle cakes! :) Franamax (talk) 01:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Anyone who plugs libraries on a regular basis has to be good. LadyofShalott 04:45, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Biting newcomers

I noticed the message you recently left to HybridBiology. Please remember not to bite the newcomers. If you see someone make a common mistake, try to politely point out what they did wrong and how to correct it. Thank you. Also, you should start a spam or vandalism warning with a lower level warning template before threatening a block. Socrates2008 (Talk) 07:54, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

There are very few circumstances where you may delete another user's talk page comments as you did here. He's a newcomer, and has obviously gone to considerable effort with his first attempt at an article, so your deletion of his talk page posting was inappropriate. Socrates2008 (Talk) 08:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Drmies, how dare you bite newcomers who post overtly promotional material pushing their malware programs and lava lamps? Don't you know how much poorer Wikipedia would be if we didn't allow these folks to use our encyclopedia as a medium to flog their wares? Get it together, man!! Your head's obviously not in the right place. This poor person has gone to "considerable length" to write his advertisement, and you just went and deleted it -- what the heck got into you? Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:17, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I would have to nominate this for template-the-regulars thread of the week. Socrates, have you reviewed all the new user contributions? Franamax (talk) 09:20, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Socrates2008 opened a thread on this on AN/I, here. Since discussion in ongoing in four different places (here, his talk page, my talk page and AN/I), perhaps it should be centralized there? Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Sheesh, the fun just doesn't stop. Drmies (talk) 15:13, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

BMK, Franamax, thanks for jumping in. I appreciate it. I'm teaching Oedipus today so I don't need any more drama. Drmies (talk) 15:17, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

While I would have left a level 2 or 3 warning on his talk page for the additions of nonsense and spam, the "No biting" template and resultant ANI thread are a little ridiculous. Reaper Eternal (talk) 19:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I've been fried from every angle for what started as a genuine attempt to help someone. The reason I used a template here was that I only had a few minutes available before I lost my internet connection; at the time, it seemed a quick and efficient way to respond, although inappropriate with hindsight given your edit history, which I did not check. Anyway, I hope you've not taken offense and will see through some of the politics above. Thanks Socrates2008 (Talk) 20:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Socrates, I don't agree with your call and I think next time you should really, really wait with starting an ANI thread. It's common courtesy to take it up with the editor and wait for a response before going to the board. On the other hand, you are well within your rights to disagree (as does Reaper, above), and if you had dropped me a line, I might have gone to that editor myself (I was going to block him for trolling, but their sandbox at least looked like an attempt to contribute). As for the templating, I really don't mind that so much myself (I don't care so much for the guideline); I wish you had just dropped me a real note before going to ANI. Thanks, and I have no hard feelings, none at all. Thanks also to the other contributors, above and at ANI. Drmies (talk) 20:54, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, maybe I could have gone somewhere else to stop the absurdity of having a talk page conversion that I was responding to being deleted under me, but in the heat of the moment I didn't. The thing that set me off in that direction was the warning that action would be taken against me for spamming if I continued to respond to him. Socrates2008 (Talk) 21:20, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what happened on that talk page, so I can't comment. Just go straight to the source of evil: in this case, my talk page, and take me to task there. BTW, the user's sandbox was deleted as a copyvio of some spam site, according to an admin at ANI... Happy days, Drmies (talk) 22:27, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for SS Sirio

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I am so thrilled that this well written and well edited article got such widespread readership while on the main page that I think I will buy myself a lava lamp to celebrate. It is always a pleasure to collaborate with you in spreading a little bit of knowledge to everyone everywhere. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:25, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Woah! I wonder how many of those hits were drawn because of recent events re: captains allegedly abandoning ships? Serendipity or what? - Sitush (talk) 08:25, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Look at the date of creation: purely on purpose, prompted by the article in de Volkskrant. Drmies (talk) 15:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Namasudra

You made a comment at Talk:Namasudra#Article_name last July. I agreed with you, nobody objected, and the original move appears to have been done unilaterally - edit summary says on "humanitarian grounds". I can still find no reason for the unconventional article title but have the feeling that reverting the move is not a trivial matter (something to do with overwriting a redirect?) Thoughts? - Sitush (talk) 08:23, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• Yep. But I went ahead and did it after I saw that argument, which doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Check me to see if I did it right. Drmies (talk) 16:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
  • That seems to work when searching on both of the terms, ie: as Namasudra and as Namassej. Seems fine to me. I will see if I can beef up the article over the next few days. - Sitush (talk) 19:19, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

99% declaration has been nominated for deletion

Feel free to weigh in on the discussion here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/99 Percent Declaration (2nd nomination).--Amadscientist (talk) 11:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks. Hey, I trust you let a bunch of people know, not just the fascist deletionists like me? Drmies (talk) 15:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Oxford comma, anyone?

[2]. Drmies (talk) 15:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• That is awesome. LadyofShalott 00:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Yay, very good! It has one obvious flaw: the name "Oxford". I can never accept that, sorry. Light blue is the only blue :)- Sitush (talk) 01:26, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat

You're welcome. Perhaps you can start a discussion about this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history, since this falls under the American Civil War task force. (I'm suggesting this because we have had many problems recently with too many categories being created. Starting a discussion first might save some problems.) Keep up the good work! Wild Wolf (talk) 16:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

RfC

No, I didn't post a notice at WT:FOOTBALL - I thought that could be seen as canvassing... should I do it now? GiantSnowman 16:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• Hmm good point. An objective note is valid, in my opinion. How about notifying the participants of the two or three conversations y'all have had over there (and maybe ANI)? I mean, there were one or two editors who supported his position, or at least didn't want him blocked, right? Drmies (talk) 16:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• I'll add a neutral note, stating that given previous discussions at WT:FOOTBALL, and that this effects footballer articles, some editors may be interested in this RfC. There was no 100% consensus against (or for) Kolins, so it should be all good in the hood. GiantSnowman 16:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

John Horsefield

Hello,

Would you please take a look at Template:Did you know nominations/John Horsefield and explain to me in plain English what (if anything) I need to do next. I know that you can explain things in plain English since you are Dutch. The DYK instructions are written for people who already know how to do it, or for geniuses. I find the whole thing totally confusing and feel certain that I will screw it up if I don't ask for help. Thanks. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:55, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Will do. Haha, I saw you "tick" and went in to sign for you, but we edit-conflicted. BRB. PS: I take no offense about this "Dutch" thing, but I prefer to think of myself as being above petty nationalities and ethnicities. A citizen of the world. Ahem. Drmies (talk) 02:06, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
• Cullen, you did everything right. You ticked off on it, and now the magic DYK gnomes (I think Mandarax is one of them) will come by and collect it, and place it in a queue. After your tick there is nothing more to do. BTW, I went in and put quotes around dead in the hook; that was agreed upon, methinks. If you go to the template again and click edit, there's that checklist again--did you look at all of the items? (I'm sure you did.) So that's it! Thank you so much for helping: the task of reviewer can be ungrateful, but you had the good fortune of doing one that was pretty well-written already. Thanks again Cullen, and let me know if there's anything I missed. Now I'm going to kiss my daughters and watch our president. Drmies (talk) 02:14, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, since you mentioned the speech by "our president", I guess I have to cease all gentle (but affectionate) teasing about matters Dutch. We watched the speech too, and afterwards, I kissed one of my sons. The other one is off rock and rolling somewhere. We invited a bunch of folks to join us to watch the speech at the meeting room of our local Round Table Pizza here in American Canyon, California. Among those who showed up were our mayor, two members of our city council, and a member of the Napa County Board of Supervisors. These politicians just can't stay away from Wikipedia editors these days! It seems we have so much clout in 2012. Well, I am glad that I didn't crash the entire DYK project and hope to see John Horsefield on the main page soon. Next time I have an hour to spare, I will devote some time to the DYK process. Speaking of Mrs. Cullen, she detected a dead link on Wikipedia today, and I fixed it. Maybe I will turn her into an editor after all. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:39, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• I can live with "pretty well written". Thank you, both. Now, Drmies, when you have finished watching your daughters and kissing your president, perhaps you would be kind enough to drop some words of stern wisdom at User_talk:Jmorrissette26. I have been tracking this person for some time, and it is abundantly clear to me that they and the IPs that edit articles relating to Interstate Van Lines are here only to promote their businesses. And I do mean "their", since I am also sure that they are one of the Morrisette family who founded that business. - Sitush (talk) 04:19, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Is that another grumpy old father who wouldn't let you take his daughter to the county fair? Drmies (talk) 04:21, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
• No, just another spammer. Blocked. Drmies (talk) 04:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Habibi

Hi. Regarding your edit to Habibi, is there a particular policy, guideline or community consensus regarding use of blurbs?

Also, even if there is, removing the material entirely, as well as the citation for it, was not necessary. It contained valuable information on the book's contents that was appropriate for the Lead. It could've been paraphrased/summarized, which I have done.

Also, Zam and Dodola did not have a sexual relationship in the book. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 08:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry, I don't know anything about sexual relationships (not my edit--as an administrator, surely you know how to read the history). Citing the book's website is always promotional, and citing it in the lead goes against a whole bunch of guidelines for how to write leads. I see you reinstated it--I have no idea why. It does not contain anything valuable--consider summarizing contents yourself and, if you need a citation (which we typically don't need in the lead), use a reliable secondary source. "The book's website describes its concept thus as a love story and a parable" is grammatically incorrect, and I challenge you to find me another article on a book, preferable a GA or FA, that cites the book's website in the lead. I'll leave it be, since it's not wise to mess with administrators. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 15:14, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
• Well, I'm sorry you feel this way. Drmies (talk) 17:10, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
  • WP:BLUE seems like an appropriate thing to link here. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 06:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks Ed--I had forgotten about that one, you majestic titan. Drmies (talk) 03:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I was the one attacked

This is like a mafia. You are all cyber-bullies, and you defend each other. I was attacked, and told my edits, which were professional and factually accurate, were "political." I responded that they were not, and somehow, I am the one at fault. It looks like George Orwell was right: He who controls the present, controls the past. A group of cyberbullies has taken over Wikipedia and controls it, thereby controlling its content, thereby controlling the past. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhokara (talk • contribs) 14:38, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• I didn't say they were political. I said that these edits are blatantly not neutral and use an unreliable and obviously partial source--you cite a "Department of Defense authorized news outlet". Come on now. Any editor who peruses your edit history will confirm this. For the talk page stalkers, please see User_talk:Pol430#Your_Definition_of_.22disruptive_editing.22. Drmies (talk) 15:19, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Twelver

Dear friend. Your are right about your comment on my talk page. However I didn't mean anything special, just being tired of his behaviour during almost one year. But I will apologize him now, also you and thanks for your today involvement. Fortunately the edit-warring is stopped good discussions are going on.--Aliwiki (talk) 22:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Well, I am glad that you jumped in there. Tempers flared, and I was interested in keeping the overall editing atmosphere a bit cooler than it was. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 23:02, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Just to inform you that the same editors are reverting the nikah mutah section which was agreed to be kept as is yesterday. I will revert their edits but i think they will just continue edit warring so could you plz jump in again. Note: their version is not ad well layed out. But mist inportantly it is full of obvious errors and typical shia propaganda. Thsnkyou.Suenahrme (talk) 00:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• I don't believe such agreement was reached for that section. Remember, it takes two to edit-war. And that section, its content is above my pay grade and competence level: you may consider, if you all can't solve it on the talk page, to try WP:DR. This is a content matter and admins are reluctant to jump in: it requires expertise. Sorry, Drmies (talk) 00:34, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Mother tongue of most users is not english, so these things always are possible to happen. For example in my mother tongue, childish is just meaning UNPROFESSIONAL; nothing bad. Anyway I apologized the user. I opened a new discussion on article talk page to resuming discussion.--Aliwiki (talk) 11:33, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppet notifications going up

Alex_Lukac (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Is putting up a number of sockpuppet notifications. Is that OK? Jim1138 (talk) 23:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Odd. I looked at one, which was blocked--for a new editor, this is strange behavior. Sometimes socks put up those notices on their socks. It's worthwhile looking for the case page (if there was an SPI) to see what's going on. Drmies (talk) 23:25, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

One great description.

I'm rarely surprised on people's descriptions, but this one made me go WTF. I thought I'd share...

"Billi Gordon worked in Los Angeles as an escort, a male prostitute and then a female prostitute until 1982 when he became the most successful greeting card model in the world." Bgwhite (talk) 00:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Ha! Is that a WP article? Does it qualify for WP:DYK? - Sitush (talk) 00:41, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Hmm I see a *possible* BLP issue there. Drmies (talk) 00:43, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Billi Gordon was created on Dec 24. The article has problems. The reference from the LA Times is an interesting read. Bgwhite (talk) 00:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
      • Whoa. I'm staying well away from that. Bgwhite, good luck! Drmies (talk) 01:07, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
        • I'm staying away too. Looks like Beyond My Ken is having fun cleaning up the article. If you have time, reading the LA Times article is well worth it. Bgwhite (talk) 05:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
          • Yes, as always, fools rush in where angels fear to tread -- but I didn't do anything controversial, just some cleaning up. Mostly formatting stuff, some copy-editing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:20, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

<--A thousand-pound female prostitute. That's just great. Hey BMK, I was reading Canaanite religion. Man that is interesting. Drmies (talk) 05:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Bunch of words in that article I've never come by before: "monolatristic", for one. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed that too. You're never too old to learn! We do like to think that only the flavors we know exist, don't we. I should reread American Gods one of these days. Drmies (talk) 03:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

That's probably my favorite book ever. LadyofShalott 03:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I haven't read it, and one couldn't ask for a better recommendation, so I've ordered a used copy from Amazon. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

That's the Lady's, then. I think it's a good book, yes--but it's not The Land of Green Plums or The Green Child, or, you know, this. Brohoof! Seriously, when you're done, you, the Lady, and I, and anyone else will announce our favorite god--in a separate, new section, which you (BMK) will start--and I will give you the correct answer, as provided by Mr. Gaiman hisself in private conversation. The winner gets a box of crayons and maybe a waffle cake. Drmies (talk) 04:25, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I dunno if I wanna play -- how many crayons in the box, what size, and are they Crayola or some cheap knock-off? After all, I'm from NYC, the mercantile city. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:30, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I maybe one of the few who didn't like American Gods. It was a very good premise, but I thought it was boring. HBO (I think) has ordered a pilot based from the book. It could be a very good TV series. Mmmmm, I'll take a waffle cake without the nuts. Grrrr, now I'm going to have waffle time singing in my head again.Bgwhite (talk) 06:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Happy Christmas Eve! Or as us Jews call it, Erev Christmas. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:04, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

A couple of niggles

Niggle #1: I set up a report at SPI a few days back but now someone else has turned up. I've added them to the report [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Austereraj|here]] but now that there are two possible socks (as well as several IPs that I cannot be bothered with), I cannot for the life of me work out how to convert the SPI so that it requests a checkuser. Which is stupid because I have done this before. Can you fix? Or even give me the "fishing rod" link so that I can fix it myself?

Niggle #2: I am involved with an AfD regarding an academic. No big deal, go with the flow, consensus will out etc. However, it seems that the H-index has some relevance at AfDs for academic scientists. Being of the arts side yourself, are you aware of any equivalent for social sciences etc? I mean, 3 or 4 published papers a year would be very good going for, say, a(n) historian but from my own unverified opinion seems to be quite normal for those involved in physical sciences. Especially when collaborations are counted. Just curious - it has no effect on the AfD but might cause me to raise the issue more generally somewhere down the line. - Sitush (talk) 00:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Niggle #1 is  Done Calabe1992 00:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Calabe. Not that I know what a niggle is, but sure. Sitush, I am no expert on that. Materialscientist knows lots of things, as does Guillaumexxxx (for xxxx, fill in a number--there's a couple of twos and a three in there, I think). Oh, DGG knows tons of stuff about academics. Drmies (talk) 00:45, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Drmies, see wikt:niggle. Calabe1992 00:46, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Guillaumexxxx is the one who actually worked out/linked to H-index, after someone else asked whether an index had been calculated. I shall pursue matters there. Ta muchly. - Sitush (talk) 00:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

You learn something every day! I'll try to work that in in class. Good luck Sitush, Drmies (talk) 01:06, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I suggest that you write a paper on the subject from an arts perspective. Then we'll see how it goes. Oh, erm, slight chicken-and-egg problem there. - Sitush (talk) 01:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Can you please block Suenahrme

He has done it again. He has removed all the changes http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Criticism_of_Twelver_Shi%27ism&action=historysubmit&diff=473248274&oldid=473175917

We are discussing the section here. AliWiki proposed a number of suggestions. But Suenahrme keeps on removing the writeup without any communication. Please help us. I have posted a message begging you to please help. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ACriticism_of_Twelver_Shi%27ism&action=historysubmit&diff=473255120&oldid=473234301 Xareen (talk) 01:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Ask me to block him one more time, or ask me to revert to the version that you like one more time, and I will block you for disruptive editing (ie, wasting everyone's time). I have just explained on the talk page why the both of you should be removed from the article. Please don't give me a reason to go to ANI and ask for a topic ban for both of you. Drmies (talk) 04:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Pankaj Oswal

Hi Drmies, Sometime ago you gave me some valuable advice when I first started to edit Pankaj Oswal page. I'm still green but I have expanded that page somewhat. I know the page had vandalism before I started editing. Whilst editing over the past couple of months there has been no vandalism until yesterday 25 January. Thankfully three editors very quickly put matters right again. Because Pankaj Oswal is getting a great deal of media attention at the moment I expect there will be more negative edits of that wiki page. Am I correct in thinking that this page is monitored for vandalism?A fair go (talk) 15:02, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for your note. I'll have a closer look in a moment--but let me say first that usually pages are not specifically monitored, no. It depends on what's happening there. BRB. Drmies (talk) 15:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
• OK, I see what's going on. I was thinking that Montymon (talk · contribs) and Weareone1234 (talk · contribs) are the same editor, but they are making different kinds of edits, though with the same intent: a kind of whitewashing. What I will do is place final warnings on their talk pages; they more than deserve that. If they start removing content again they may be blocked, possibly indefinitely. Another option we have is protecting the article, but that's kind of a last resort.
  If it happens again, and it's done by one of these two editors, you can report them at WP:AIV and drop me a line. If other (new) editors come in and start doing the same thing, we have a few more options--a sock puppet investigation and (semi-)protection for the article. The latter you can request at WP:RPP, or, again, drop me a line. Thanks again for your contributions to Wikipedia, Drmies (talk) 15:29, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Knoxville

Thanks for finishing the DYK review. I think Madeline's election is a sign of good things in Knoxville. I dunno if the city is ready for a city template, after the grief that ensued over someone's creation of the "neighborhoods" template (see Template talk:Knoxneighborhoods). --Orlady (talk) 16:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Ah, I hadn't seen that template--it didn't pop up while I was typing "template:Knoxvil..." (I don't think it's a really good name!). There are a lot of words on that talk page! I wonder, though, if some of the issues (about the market place, for instance, and the campus) couldn't be captured/dealt with in a larger, more general template. Anyway, I would have found it useful, but I left. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 17:11, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• That template is only for "neighborhoods." It was created by a well-intentioned user who didn't appear to have much real-world knowledge of Knoxville and was working from dubious sources, but was committed to document all of the alleged neighborhoods described in those sources. Others of us squandered a lot of time and energy repairing the template and associated articles.
  There probably would be merit in creating a comprehensive template for the city, but it's annoying when the template-tail starts to wag the article-dog, as it did in that case. --Orlady (talk) 18:04, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, that much was clear. In general, way too much effort is wasted on well-intended efforts--see DYK. Hey, we have the template, it appears to be functional, how about a name change? And would you like to draw up a city-wide template in a sandbox? You can make one for Oak Ridge too, with a gigantic picture on it. Drmies (talk) 18:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Not gonna use that picture. ;-) --Orlady (talk) 18:35, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that

Well, that'll teach me not to "correct" what I think are spelling errors quickly over lunch and without really looking carefully at the context. Sorry. LadyofShalott 03:05, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, not to worry. I'm just glad I was right. Now write the OED and tell them to add "accountred"; it's not in there. Did you type it in in Google books? Real interesting, and I looked at a dozen of them to make sure they weren't misprints. Drmies (talk) 03:07, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I haven't yet. I admit, I'm perplexed by the 'n' in that word. If it's from accoutre, where's the 'n' come from? LadyofShalott 03:11, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
    • My question exactly. Hey, ask the reference desk! Drmies (talk) 03:12, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
      • Yeah, probably should. I wonder, could it possibly be a portmanteau of accounted and accoutred? LadyofShalott 03:17, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
        • The word to describe it has escaped me, but there's a process where words borrowed from another language attract additional letters because, to native speakers of the host language, they appear similar to native words. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Hmm... that's a plausible possibility. LadyofShalott 16:32, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

<--Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#"Accountred" - now to wait for replies. LadyofShalott 16:32, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Excellent! We do have a couple of hardcore linguists in the joint. Drmies (talk) 16:34, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
• Lady, I got a reply. I've posted some musings there (one involving you). Drmies (talk) 02:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I have to wonder about pronunciation. Is the beginning pronounced like "account" or "acoont"? Is the final syllable said like "tred" or "turd"? And are those consistent - how similar would Walter Scott's pronunciation be to someone writing in the post-Civil-War-era US? LadyofShalott 16:22, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

• Good question. I'd say "account", for in the South anyway. Perhaps "acoont" in Scotland! "Tred", I don't know. There is always an upper-class sway toward French, but how that would work here I can't tall. Scott's rendering of dialect is severely criticized--perhaps a Southern version of his version of a Highland dialect is as real as our pirate speech. Drmies (talk) 15:33, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

The Brotherhood of Eternal Love

Nice work. Toddst1 (talk) 04:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

What Toddst1 said. Cheers Manning (talk) 07:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Drmies (talk) 14:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello Drmies, and Toddst1... I suspect that this is not the correct way to contact you, but after half an hour of looking for a proper way to send either of you a message, this is as close as I've been able to get. Re the Brotherhood of Eternal Love article, I'm one of the two editors taking turns replacing each others content. I've just created an account this evening, and written up my intentions on my User page. I hope you'll have a look, and that we can discuss the editing of this page further. I'll need a little help, as I can not yet make heads or tails of the Wiki messaging system.

Please don't interpret my attempts to edit this article as vandalism, or anything less than an effort to accurately and neutrally describe this organization. I am aware of, but am not part of, the Orange Sunshine documentary film project. I'm not trying to promote it or anything else, including the Brotherhood of Eternal Love, but I would like the article to be based on a more complete set of facts, and to be free of egregious errors.

I am just now becoming aware of Wikipedia's proscription against original research, and I acknowledge that I have not been attributing my material to its published sources. I'm willing to do that going forward.

Please forget about the bodily harm threat from the other editor, btw. It was made on Facebook, not Wikipedia. I only mentioned that to Ramaksoud2000 so that he wouldn't divulge my identity or email address to this other fellow, who, fortunately, does not live nearby.

Thanks very much, - Warren Allen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wa-passage (talk • contribs) 11:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• You'll have seen the note on your talk page, no doubt--summarizing, there isn't a messaging system, and these remarks are best place on the article talk page, Talk:The Brotherhood of Eternal Love. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 14:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Good contribution

I think this is a nice contribution. For Biblical aspects it is an important source. --Pediaknowledge (talk) 16:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry, I disagree. The content is possibly of interest in the main article, History of music in the biblical period. However, I do not believe that Jehovah's Witnesses publications (and the reference was incomplete) count as reliable sources on this particular topic. Such publications are usually accepted to speak of the tenets held by the denomination, but this is a historical topic. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 17:00, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I disagee with you. The part of the article is talking about music and Bible. It is appropiate and you are wrong. --Pediaknowledge (talk) 19:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Please see WP:RS and what reliable sources are. As for being wrong, well, I guess I have no response to that. Drmies (talk) 19:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
  • No need to respond to the claim that you're wrong, Drmies, since any neutral disinterested observer would agree that you're right. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:10, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

3RR clarification

I stripped out some hopelessly unreliable content from Allama Mashriqi a few hours ago. Subsequently, I have nominated an article on the author of most of that cited content - Nasim Yousaf - at AfD.

An IP has reverted my removals on three occasions since the strip-out, per the history. Now, this is where I get very confused about 3RR: the article was stable for a few days prior to my initial edits, so do my first edits count as a "revert"? My suspicion is that they do and therefore 3RR is favouring retention of content rather than removal in this instance. Trying to have conversations with IPs is next to impossible in these situations, but I have tried and in fairness they did respond on my own talk page. - Sitush (talk) 06:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

IP now blocked for 3RR breach, but I am still unsure of my ground. That the article stays the same for 24 hours is no big deal but if I remove the crap content again some time after that then I'll be slow edit warring. This is so messy: the remover is always going to be on the "wrong" end of the count, and so I guess that I'd better try to get some support from WP:RSN or similar. - Sitush (talk) 09:04, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Another fine mess you've gotten yourself into. Well, next time that IP will get blocked for longer, and now there is a pattern of edits to latch onto in case of IP hopping. In cases like these, one can sometimes pick up a determined BLP fighter at the BLP noticeboard--consider making friends with Yesyoureallycan. Good luck Sitush!

To all interested parties: YES I'm watching My Little Pony right now: brohoof! Drmies (talk) 15:29, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Sitush, do you have an opinion on this, Hameeduddin Ahmed Al-Mashriqi? Drmies (talk) 15:50, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Delete. My other growing opinion is that the creator of that article, User:Politics19, User:Beautycare, the IP & perhaps one other user are all socks. - Sitush (talk) 16:01, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

BTW, I prod'ed AMZ Publications, whose only publications appear to be the works of Yousaf, and set up a query about Yousaf's hagiographies etc at RSN (although I have never managed to obtain a meaningful answer from that venue in the past). - Sitush (talk) 16:17, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I see that you slapped a CSD on the publisher. Is that because you are more decisive or less patient that me? - Sitush (talk) 17:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't know about the first, Sitush, but definitely the last. You saw that it was deleted by DGG, a good indication that you were right, and you did bring up a very valid PROD rationale. Drmies (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

It is such a shame that "This is crap" is not a valid PROD rationale. I mean, 95% of the time it is actually the case. - Sitush (talk) 19:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

It is kicking off again. User:68.174.108.113 (from New York) was blocked for 3RR at Inayatullah_Khan_Mashriqi a couple of days ago. Now another IP from New York (different ISP) is making the same edits despite my note on the article talk page and this at RSN. As you are aware from the above, there are a series of connected articles that all contained ridiculous promotional links etc and invoked the work of this pseudo-academic who is directly related to the subject matter. Some of them have been deleted in the past and then recreated; one of them is now at AfD for the second time. What do I do next? - Sitush (talk) 04:33, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Ladies Memorial Association at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 15:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

AfD Closure

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul John Ellis (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

If appropriate, could you please close the above AfD based on my withdrawal of the nomination? WP:WITHDRAWN doesn't give any guidance on how the closure is supposed to be implemented. As an aside, if you have any tips on what I should do in the future before nominating an academic for deletion, feel free. I approach these articles as I would any other article, but, as you can see from the discusion, I get a lot of push back (a euphemism for the rude comments) that I should do more, or at least do it differently. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

FWIW, until earlier this week I was not aware of the h-index thing, nor was I wonderfully happy about how it was presented to me at the AfD that I nominated. - Sitush (talk) 16:31, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it is mentioned at WP:PROF: "Measures of citability such as the h-index, g-index, etc., may be used as a rough guide in evaluating whether Criterion 1 is satisfied, but they should be approached with considerable caution since their validity is not, at present, widely accepted, and since they depend substantially on the source indices used." The whole Citation metrics section is a labor-intensive quagmire.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:40, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) (edit conflict) I hope you don't mind Drmies - I've gone ahead and closed it as keep. I've meant to try out that script I had installed, and this was an easy one... Nolelover ^{Talk·Contribs} 16:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I noticed, Nolelover, thanks for taking care of it, and I'm glad I gave you an opportunity to try out your script. :-) Question: could I have closed it myself?--Bbb23 (talk) 17:08, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I've never closed any of the many AfDs I've withdrawn, although I guess theoretically there's no reason not to...I just wouldn't/don't because it because, for whatever reason, I wonder if it might be taken as a I Was Maybe Wrong But I'm Withdrawing And There's Nothing You Can Do To Stop Me action. Meh, so it stays open another day or two. It's not going anywhere, and no one will !vote delete once you've withdrawn. Nolelover ^{Talk·Contribs} 17:27, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I continued to to argue for deletion on one of Drmies' withdrawn AfDs on a Belgian beer recently. I needed to demonstrate that I am not his toady. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Bbb. In my case it was presented as some sort of panacea for keep/delete, and while WP:PROF says it quite nicely I must admit that my thought was "that's bollocks". - Sitush (talk) 16:46, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Heh.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:08, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

<--Thank you all. Believe it or not, I was out selling Girl Scout cookies with an unwilling child. I recently withdrew one of my own (after further investigation), but there was only one vote--by the author, with a rant and nothing but invalid arguments. Yes, this one you could close yourself--and I wish "speedy keep" would be stricken from the vocabulary of most editors. It's not like you have a reputation for being an a-hole, Bb. Drmies (talk) 18:46, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

So you don't have a budding retail queen on your hands, huh? Did y'all make some sales anyway? LadyofShalott 19:01, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Six boxes. This is America: people rarely get out of their car... Drmies (talk) 20:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

In Southern California, people don't form relationships - their cars do. Car divorces are common (irreconcilable models).--Bbb23 (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

My policy is to buy two boxes from any Girl Scout who asks, unless I'm flat broke in which case I buy three. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Fæ

A request for comments has been opened on administrator User:Fæ. You are being notified due to your prior participation in ANI, RfA, or RfC discussions regarding this user. Thank you, MadmanBot (talk) 19:51, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Hotel Polen fire

This article was recently copy edited by Jack Greenmaven (of WP:GOCE) and by Hylian Auree. Do you see any problems with it as it stands now? As I'm thinking of nominating it again at WP:FAR. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 20:50, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I think that Jack took a good article and made it better. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

SpeakFree, I'm a bit all over the place, but I will look at this today. But usually I take Cullen's advice without hesitation. Hey, SpeakFree, zometeen pannenkoeken voor het ontbijt! Da's een groot voordeel van Amerika versus Nederland. Drmies (talk) 14:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Yummy. No probs, there is no hurry. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 20:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I nevertheless nominated it again here. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 23:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

<--Oh, yes, I forgot to tell you--I looked at all those copyedits a day or so ago, and they looked fine to me. Did I add "dearth" to the article and it was subsequently taken out? Good luck with it, SpeakFree! Drmies (talk) 23:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

"Who's the prettiest admin?"

It's gotta be the professor in Alabama. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:57, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Here's my response to Cullen's absurd notion. Bgwhite (talk) 07:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

That video was mean, and made my Google Chrome freeze up and crash. But I laughed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cullen328 (talk • contribs)

On top of all that, playing that video logged me out and made me sign above as an IP. I take responsibility for the above edit. Track the IP address, and you will learn that I am editing in or near American Canyon, California, just like my user page says. (The city limit is only about 100 yards away). Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Whew, my secret identity is safe. The geolocation puts me way across town. I was afraid that it would pinpoint my house. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Problem fixed, sir. Selective deletion is a beautiful thing. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 07:50, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

<--Well, thanks Bg. That's a bit gross. I have the feeling you're acting out on Wikipedia what Mrs. Bgwhite won't have you do in real life. Cullen, thank you so much. Maybe next time (at Wikimania?) I'll ask Mrs. Cullen to dance with me. Now, I know for a fact that the Lady is quite a looker, but is she prettier than me? Mirror, mirror? Drmies (talk) 14:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Of course not! LadyofShalott 19:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I would love to visit Washington, DC. It has been many years since I've been there. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

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Talkback

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Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 11:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Wär Gott nicht mit uns diese Zeit, BWV 14

OK, this is my first attempt at a DYK review. As I said there, it looks to me like it meets all the requirements, but I'd like another pair of eyes behind me. Would you (or a TPS) look, please? LadyofShalott 20:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

• From the title, it's clear that this is one of Gerda's. Usually, they're good. I'll have a look. Drmies (talk) 01:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Drmies. So when she addresses that one question, we can tick it off, I guess? LadyofShalott 02:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Yes. You'll note that a lot of DYK reviewers aren't as picky as I am (and only some are a lot pickier). But Gerda has been churning out quality content, and I never have more than nitpicky comments. Then again, with her I'm extra picky because her stuff is so good and I like to think that much of it is GA ready. Thanks for the review! Drmies (talk) 14:49, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, I saw that while I made no edits to her article, you caught several little things. I actually picked one of hers deliberately when I saw it on the list, knowing she tends to do good work. Thank you for the help. LadyofShalott 15:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• I hate to be an officious intermeddler (I have not yet done a DYK review myself, but soon will) but my only concern was the question of newness (expansion of exiting article). If it is 5X, then it might not qualify, I think. Alternatively, if it is a fixed number of characters, then I have no idea and no opinion. Just a thought. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• Hmmm, I just ticked it off. I admit I didn't actually count characters, but it looked to me that the actual prose had to have been increased at least five times. LadyofShalott 15:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

(I should keep my mouth shut and just smile, but there is a tool called DYK check which tells you that it is long enough, - counting of characters doesn't help because only the so-called prose counts, - thanks for the tick, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thank for the guidance. That would solve the issue.

I think that is the standard, but in my case this is the blind leading the blind. I have no question about the quality of the work. I only know how picky DYK is, and if you aren't over the threshold, then you're not in the door. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't quite understand, I made sure I am over the threshold before I nominated. Go ahead, install the tool yourself and check if you don't believe it. It's a very useful tool, it's practically impossible to do a review without it, or how would you differentiate between 4.9 and 5.1 times. - Different approach: If you compare the former article to what there is now, you will see that it is all new, because I could not use the 900+ chars that I found. I really prefer to do them from scratch, like BWV 125, nominated, to appear on 2 February, didn't get a review yet, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

<--Sorry, I had no idea there was bean counting going on in this section. Consider this: in this early version, I only counted the first section at less than 800 characters, not the "structure" section (and "recordings"), since that's really kind of like a list and is unchanged still in the later version, which has some 4,700 characters. Everybody happy? Drmies (talk) 04:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

It's in prep and deserves it, thank you. I count the beans since the discussion on a cantata that still had the text in it and the bean counters wanted me to match that *5, so: happy about this one. - I am even happier that the other one is there, too, as happy as one can be writing about departing. Next BWV 84, no rush, it's new and good until 11 Febr. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

About more bean counting: I counted 28 articles on the PumpkinSky list, checked off as ok. Dealing with 3 others (so far), please advise me about paraphrasing issues, such as a dangerous "and was designated a State Natural Area in 1986" copied word-for-word from the source. BWV 125 Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin (With peace and joy I depart) is on the Main Page, in memory of a great helper on WP. BWV 84 is approved. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:21, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Forewarning

They've filed the report at the wrong venue but doubtless they will repost in due course - since you have been named, see Wikipedia:AN#User:Sitush. Some background at User_talk:Sitush#Ownership_of_articles, User_talk:GorillaWarfare#Problems with Sitush and User_talk:Qwyrxian#Problems_with_Sitush. - Sitush (talk) 01:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks Sitush. I'm kind of honored to be whined about in the complaint that bears your name. Unless, of course, you turn out to be a trolling sock puppet or something like that. Drmies (talk) 01:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• I may be Jimbo, as Lady may recall. See User talk:Sitush/Archive 4#Level headed. - Sitush (talk) 01:51, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

James Tod FAC

As you are someone who contributed to the article, I thought that you should know that it is now at Wikipedia:Fac#James_Tod. Scary. - Sitush (talk) 09:14, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I was going to take a look at the weird capitals issue later. It was introduced here but I did not spot it until today. Very odd.

The sic was discussed on the talk page. - Sitush (talk) 19:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

But that's a discussion about entites? entities? Drmies (talk) 19:52, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

No, my comment and sic-removal refers to "intestine". Drmies (talk) 19:53, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Have a cold drink ready, since I just unloaded in the FA review. With my apologies. Drmies (talk) 19:53, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Scots College

Although it has been almost a month, I'd still like to give my thanks for your edits to Scots College. I'll pass on the implied guidelines when I can to the more serious editors around there :) - thanks again! Techhead7890 (talk) 09:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, you're more than welcome. Yes, school articles often suffer in the same way: addition of non-notable people and not so neutral information--for US schools usually about their glorious tradition in sports. That article needs a heavy infusion of sources, and of course a photograph of the principal wearing a kilt--I bet you it would be the only one of its kind on Wikipedia. Thanks for your note, Drmies (talk) 14:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!

I thought I was going to have to trawl through that huge WP:RPP backlog on my own! GedUK  15:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• We aim to please. It wasn't that bad when I started looking at it. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 18:28, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Vellalar

... well, in that case (RFPP) I have just done this. If you have a word with Spiffy then I suspect you'll get the same reaction as I had on seeing these additions but, hey ho, we'll live with it as long as I am not the only one reverting. Thanks for taking a look. - Sitush (talk) 15:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• I'm keeping an eye on it. Drmies (talk) 18:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
• Yes, that is what I was trying to do--don't know why I failed. Thanks. Oh, keep warning those IPs; that's helpful. Drmies (talk) 18:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
  • If you are like me then what you did was hit "undo" in Twinkle. If you had hit "Rollback (AGF)" or "Rollback (Vandalism)" then "good faith"/"vandalism" would be in the summary. What you needed was "Restore" because there were two IPs involved. I am not convinced about the warnings because it is almost certainly the same single person dodging and socking: geolocate + a fairly narrow range suggests that is the case, although the range is too wide to block en masse. Actually, they're probably not deliberately dodging, but their IP is changing each time nonetheless.
    In any event, the net effect is that they won't see the warnings but if someone else uses that IP in future then they'll see some weird messages. Semi-pp would have forced them to the talk page to discuss changes. I am turning into quite the strategist! - Sitush (talk) 04:17, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
    • I've blocked the most recent IP for 48 hours and protected the template. There's a couple of others they've been messing with; let me know, or RPP, if they become problematic. See also this, on the Simple Wikipedia. You can extend your battleground to that place, maybe. ;) Oh, Spiff had protected it against socking: if you have any ideas on who the master is, start an SPI. Perhaps a range block is in order, but I'm no expert on that--the good folks at AIV or ANI are. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 15:38, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
      • The master will be User:Pondheepankar, as per my comment at RFPP. But SPI will not link IPs to usernames, so there is no point in taking it there. I've never looked at Simple Wikipedia before - how the hell does that work? Have you seen their version of Nair? I mean, there is simple and there is bloody stupid. Anyway, I have enough people trying to outflank me on this front without opening up a whole new campaign on another. Unlike Napoleon and Hitler, I am not an delusional egotist. Well, at least I don't think I am ;) Sitush (talk) 16:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
        • Thanks. I've looked through their edits but didn't see anything familiar: can you single out one or two that exemplify their style, on article they're still active on? That may help. As for Simple: see this conversation, which also involves you, Napoleon. Drmies (talk) 16:38, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
          • Thanks for the BS ... erm, Barnstar. Pondheepankar goes back well before my (active) time and the list of socks at the SPI archive is pretty long because, yes, s/he keeps returning. I've kind of got to know what goes on via some process similar to osmosis, guided by the superior experience of User:SpacemanSpiff and User:Sodabottle. Articles related to the Kongu Vellalar Gounder community are among their (Pondheepankar's) interests & there is usually a lot of unsourced stuff because it is WP:OR. They have a fascination with listing things also. I'll see if I can create a trail for you but I've got this FA thing on the boil at the moment also. And now that some twit has mentioned my name at Simple I'll probably find people crossing over from there to slug it out with me here :) Sitush (talk) 17:10, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
            • Good luck with the FA. If "twit" means what I think it means, you'll have an RfC/U to contend with also. Your community ban is in the mail, Sitush. Drmies (talk) 19:04, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
              • Twit can be a verb or a noun; in either case it ranks extremely low on the Malleus Scale. - Sitush (talk) 19:55, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
                • Thinking about it, "twat" can also be a verb or noun. I used to get twatted quite often back in the days when I played rugby. To the best of my knowledge, there are no such words as "twet" or "twut" in the English language ... but I vaguel recall seeing "twot" somewhere, once. Probably a misprint for "twyt". - Sitush (talk) 19:58, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Thought I'd let you know: not much on your end yet, but we got hit with this yesterday. Osiris (talk) 16:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Sarah Case

In the contributor description at the back of Georgia Women (ed. by Chirhart and Wood), it says that Case "is [as of 2009] completing a manuscript on southern women and educational reform in late nineteenth- and early twentieth-century Georgia". Sounds interesting doesn't it? (BTW, a propos an earlier discussion: note the lack of capitalization of southern in that quote.) LadyofShalott 17:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• You should go get another graduate degree, Lady, on this topic. (BTW, yes, I've seen that in many places too. I'd like to see a specific entry in the MOS.) Drmies (talk) 04:27, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Hah, it's more fun to have brief spurts of activity here when the notion takes me. :) (You could start a discussion topic at WT:MOS, or start something in a sandbox on it, then propose it there.) LadyofShalott 16:29, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Eh, well, my argument would be "We should capitalize it because the South will rise again"? Drmies (talk) 18:53, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Tough. I'm looking and polling in "our" context, of course--South as a cultural/historical/regional entity, in specific reference to Civil War, Lost Cause, etc. No capital. Yes capital. My boss (white male midwesterner), no. Sociology prof (black female), yes. History prof (white female LSUer), yes. I don't think any consensus will be forthcoming here: we must allow both. That's nice, cause that means I can use the capital (unless the MOS forbids it), which I like because it looks better. Drmies (talk) 19:03, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Organic, Inc.

Hello! I have watched (with admittedly some frustration) the evolution of the Organic, Inc. article today. Given that, I went ahead and made some edits to try to bring things into line. If you see anywhere I stepped over the line, or anywhere I fell short, please drop me a line at my talk page. Thanks, and thank you (as always) for your great work. --Tgeairn (talk) 00:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

• If anything, I think you were way too nice! I unleashed the MOS and various other acronyms. Thanks for alerting me and for your good work. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Just looked... a work of art. I truly learned a few things by following you edit by edit. Thanks for the update! --Tgeairn (talk) 03:25, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
    • You're too kind. In Dutchland we call what I did "chopping with a blunt axe." BTW, on the edit-by-edit, I've noticed that this is helpful for a couple of reasons, one of them being that in contentious articles it allows for clear edit summaries, so the "opposing" party is perhaps more convinced of judiciousness and the proper application of WP guidelines. Happy days! Drmies (talk) 15:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/Afghanistan at the Asian Games Myanmar at the Asian Games India at the Asian Games Pakistan at the Asian Games Philippines at the Asian Games Asian Games Federation.
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A Barnstar for you

		The Article Rescue Barnstar
		For your good work improving Sabbath Rest Advent Church! Because article improvement is for everyone! Milowent • hasspoken 16:55, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the kind note on my talk page, Drmies. I can't recall a time we've been at odds either, in the best tradition of the small town prosecutor and defense attorney, courtroom battles by day and evening beers among friends. Though the template deletion irks me, its also a small trifle in the big scheme of things. Cheers.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 16:55, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
  • My pleasure. Even without the template, articles will still be rescued--please drop me a line if you run into something exciting that may need saving. Since I am a well-known almost fascist deletionist, such a note can never be considered canvassing. Drmies (talk) 18:52, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Psst

You might just not have an answer, but you might have missed it - so just in case, look up to #Sorry about that. :) LadyofShalott 22:07, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Truth seekers

I had written something very similar and deleted it before I hit "Save page." I think that page will remain protected for a long, long time. Toddst1 (talk) 23:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

• Yep. I saw you had a visit from an old friend. Drmies (talk) 23:22, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I "seem to attract the kooks" - or more likely, I just tend to deal with them. Thanks. Toddst1 (talk) 23:46, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Improperly verified

What do you mean "improperly verified"? I saw that BBC documentary and Dr. Tar Ilan did say that Mary Magdalene was the founder of Christianity. You don't consider a BBC historical documentary as a reliable source? BBC decided to trust Ilan as an expert in history. Besides, Bart Ehrman corroborates what Ilan says, see the quote on Talk:Christianity. I don't say that your judgment is wrong, I just want to understand your reasoning. Tgeorgescu (talk) 23:49, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

• I see that John Carter has responded on the talk page; I agree with his comments. In short, my own take: one scholar does not a notable controversy make. "While it would be straightforward to consider" is argumentative (i.e., not encyclopedic). "BBC Bible Mysteries ep. 4, "The Real Mary Magdalene", 2003." is incomplete (missing bibliographical information) and for such important points we need to require printed information. But also, you shift from "founder" to Mary or others being apostles. The final sentence sounds like the conclusion of an essay--a matter of tone, and the statement is unverified. But again, John Carter's comments are probably more helpful: an article on "founding" may be a viable idea. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 01:08, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Bishop Hendricken High School

Hi there, saw that you deleted my edit re: the vice principal who's a conservative commentator. You said the statement was under-referenced, but I disagree. I linked to his page on the schools website, showing he's employed there; I linked to his author/editor page on a conservative commentary website; I also linked to his twitter account, which is updated with great frequency. The Hendricken wiki page itself is very long, and yet it has only five other citations. I added three to support my one (and very true) statement, which I would think would be a good thing. No? Finite.jest.05 (talk) 00:17, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

• Wikipedia works by way of secondary sources. But even if a secondary source verifies that he is a conservative commentator, what encyclopedic value does that have? Drmies (talk) 00:59, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Tighten up Intro to Germanic Neopaganism

Would you mind if I change the introduction to Germanic Neopaganism? The current version is a bit repetitious. Note that all references will be kept.

see this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ThorLives

Thank you.

--ThorLives (talk) 02:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

• Thor, you don't have to ask my permission. For crying out loud, you're a fucking Germanic god! Seriously, go ahead. There's been some stuff happening, as you know, so perhaps it's good to make notes on the talk page and go slowly--not in huge overhauls made in one edit. Kim Dent-Brown is probably also curious. Have at it, and good luck. Drmies (talk) 02:32, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
• Wait--I don't think you can say that Gmc Neopaganism is "also known as" those things. It's not Asatru (because that's a specific form) or The Troth (because that's a specific club). I think you should stay with more general terms such as heathenism or whatever. Besides, some of those wikilinks go back to the article itself, which indicates that they are sub-terms, genres, versions, etc. Drmies (talk) 02:42, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Drmies, I have been involved in Odinism since the 1980's, and, generally speaking, the various names are synonyms. Odinism tends to be used in Britain, Asatru tends to be used in the USA, Theodism originally meant people who emphasized the Anglo-Saxon names of the gods instead of the Old Norse names, and heathenism was originally used by people who wanted to use German names. of course, the only complete material we have is from Iceland (the Eddas), so some of the latter groups tend to make some imaginative leaps.

I will tighten up the intro, but feel free to alter. Thank you --ThorLives (talk) 08:02, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

• Well, "complete" is a bit of a stretch, given that its composition took place after the conversion of Iceland. I disagree that these terms are synonyms: what you have are organizations and systems that claim to be synonymous, but that's hardly the same thing. Even heathenism isn't a synonym, really, since different writers in different times can mean anything that's not Christian: it may mean your term in the recent past, but certainly not in the nineteenth century, for instance, so any phrasing is going to have to involve some modifications. The current version, I think, is not bad--but I see now that this is after Bhlegkorb's revert. I've tweaked that version again. Thing is also, if all those terms are synonyms, then all the denominations ought to be synonymous with each other and they aren't--just look at the discussions about race and ethnicity (universality). Drmies (talk) 14:55, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

You seem to be a sensible chap, so perhaps the solution would be a quick cleanup and then for you (as an administrator) to place a protect on the article. Although Odinists believe that time goes in circles, editing in circles seems fruitless.--ThorLives (talk) 01:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• This is true. Thing is (sorry, Þing), I shouldn't, since I've been actively editing the article and chances are I would protect a version I like. I wonder, can't you and Bhlegkorb work this out? Their recent remarks seem sensible enough. If you both are of different heathen persuasions, that might be difficult, of course, but that's the burden of a project like this one: consensus. I haven't looked at the talk page in a while; I don't know if you are discussing things there. I hope you are. Also, I don't think a quick cleanup is possible here--the rest of the article is so all over the place, because the very subject matter is difficult to define or cover, that there's nothing quick we can do there, I think. But I'm actually afraid to look at the article since I might find more edit-warring there. Drmies (talk) 01:54, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Although Bhlegkorb has reversed nearly every edit that I have made to the page, he does seem to respect the edits made by administrators such as yourself, so, in the interest of peace, I will keep a low profile for a time. I returned here in late 2011 (I stopped editing wikipedia in 2005 or so because of life responsibilities) because I watched with alarm a series of edits, made over a year, by someone who, in my opinion, was trying to claim that little groups with five members each somehow represented greater Odinism. --ThorLives (talk) 22:10, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• If I can help it, such claims will not be made in Wikipedia articles. As I said on the talk page, I've been going through some of the groups, adding references where I can and merging or suggesting deletion for non-notable ones. I did not know so much was listed about so many non-notable organizations. Best, Drmies (talk) 22:12, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

OK, your work is appreciated. --ThorLives (talk) 07:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Strmiska's Modern Paganism in World Cultures - Heathenry section

Hi! I think this study which is part of Michael Strmiska's Modern Paganism in World Cultures can be considered a good source. It contains virtually all information we need, from terminology to cosmology, and I think it could replace some not reliable sources of the previous version of the article. --Bhlegkorbh (talk) 10:15, 1 February 2012 (UTC) Note that I've written the same message here.

Please continue to take part to the discussions on Germanic Neopaganism since things aren't moving on. ThorLives has recently reverted again to his "superior version" (see, see). I invite you to read rapidly all the discussions which have taken place in recent months starting from this, since many users' interventions have been completely ignored. --Bhlegkorbh (talk) 12:15, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Today's funny article

Ralph Dewey "is one of the pioneers in gospel balloon twisting" and he is a gospel clown. I must be living under a rock, because I've never heard of this.

Looking at a photo, I don't know whether to say I'm impressed or to say it is creepy. Bgwhite (talk) 07:49, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• Whoa. I mean, really, whoa. Drmies (talk) 14:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
• Damn it. There goes a perfectly good AfD. Drmies (talk) 14:49, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
  • That is truly bizarre. LadyofShalott 17:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
    • A muscular messiah. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:57, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
      • Or, as a Facebook friend told me, a lot of hot air. Drmies (talk) 18:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
        • I'm going back under my rock, it's too scary out there. But as Drmies sounds like he wants to get involved, this book will help you build Noah's ark and Jesus with a penis. Just think of all the great times Drmies with have with his daughters. Bgwhite (talk) 00:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
          • That article led me to Balloon modelling. Hmmmm, does this possibly violate Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:40, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
            • Well, I trimmed it considerably (and removed the tag). Is it still too much? User:Balloonman is the expert on the matter (some of the photos in the gallery are his--us Wikipedia editors have many talents!). Drmies (talk) 19:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Keeley Electronics

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Frank Bungarten

That should do the trick. Happy to be of help.

Keep up the good work, and happy editing! --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 19:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Sabbath Rest Advent Church

Hi there, I noticed you quoted the "Handbuch" in the above article. I appreciate your work and efforts and have a question: more recent media coverage shows that some of the statements made by the Handbuch authors are incorrect--in particular the statement concerning doctors. However, the media in question is a German newspaper (with German text of course) and it can only be viewed online after paying a subscription. How can this updated material be included in the article? Thank you again. PTtrans (talk) 20:23, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• Well, sources don't have to be available online--in such cases we have to take it on good faith. (It's a policy, actually: WP:AGF.) Complete bibliographical information is a must, I'd say, and including a quote (the citation templates have a parameter for that) from the original is a good idea. Do you have the article? If you like you can email it to me, and then I can confirm your claim, so to speak. But is the source a reliable one? Which paper? I may have access to it. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:48, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
• Oh, after re-reading your message: it may well be that this is a matter that's changed. But I'm curious about the source and would like to look at it. Drmies (talk) 21:49, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome :-). The newspaper report is from the Siegener Zeitung, April 8, 2006. If you don't have acces to it I will get it scanned and send it to you. How's your German? Some of the other things mentioned by the "Handbuch" do not give a true reflection of the church's stand, but can I correct it without having other third party sources? Am I right in assuming that the article is now wikified? If so, how can the tag be deleted? Thanks a million PTtrans (talk) 15:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

• My spoken German is very rusty, until we have a couple of beers. I took care of the tags. In regards to the Handbuch, it's a published source and thus trumps any non-published source (or other truth). If you have the article scanned you can also put it up on some website, maybe--the email function in Wikipedia does not allow for attachments, I think. Web sources may be reliable, but have to be judged on a case-by-case basis. Does that answer your questions? Happy Feierabend, Drmies (talk) 19:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for taking care of the tags. Concerning the citation requirement for further verification, which sections did you have in mind? I note that other articles cite their own publications in regard to their "creeds" etc. BTW, I am in the process of getting the newspaper article up on the web, though it may take a little time yet. There are some other articles as well which deal specifically with the German church. The newspapersw are the Rhein Zeitung and the Siegener Zeitung. They are both regional. Thanks again, PTtrans (talk) 20:45, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hi again, I hope this is the right place to add a new comment! I wanted to give you a link to the newpaper article I mentioned

http://srac.de/transfer/presse/2006-04-08 SZ Gottesherrschaft im Alltagsleben.pdf

• You will have to copy the entire line (including the spaces) in order to get there. SZ means Siegener Zeitung, and the date in the link is the date the article appeared. As I mentioned before, the article gives some info about the churches standing today, i.e. members can go to doctors; there are no dictators but each individual bears a responsibility; church responsibilities are delegated by the church itself; there must be harmony in the church before any relevant steps are taken, etc. Read it for yourself and let me know what you think. Look forward to hearing from you. PTtrans (talk) 21:04, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at Talk:Meerut.
Message added 00:55, 3 February 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Found something new. Maybe the actors' list can be added after all. Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 00:55, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

De Profundis (letter)

Could you close it as a fail as it hasn't been touched for 2 months (61 days). No attempt to fix has been done. ~~Ebe123~~ → report on my contribs. 01:19, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

• I had totally forgotten about it. What a complete waste of time. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 03:10, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at Dcshank's talk page.
Message added 05:20, 3 February 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

:- ) DCS 05:20, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Ralph Dewey

Did a DYK nomination for the balloon guy. It's located here. Hope I did things right. Bgwhite (talk) 07:40, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

• I'm sure Jesus will be very grateful! Nomination looks good. Drmies (talk) 17:01, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Melomics

The page has been deleted by you, but we don't understand the reasons, please clarify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quipa (talk • contribs) 09:42, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

• We? It was requested to be deleted so the version at Articles for Creation could be moved there. Drmies (talk) 16:59, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Speedy

Ideclinedyourspeedy.Sorry, onPOSkeyboardwithbrokenspacebar.(Goaheadandlaugh.)--LadyofShalott 18:32, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Walled garden

Dolchamar was speedied just fine. Patrik Austin is the lead singer of the deleted band. He is also the lead singer of the Messiaat band which now has no other claim to fame save for their lead singer being the lead singer of a now redlinked band. Seems simple enough. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:30, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

• Sure, but there were a bunch of albums also (now deleted). I am somewhat uncomfortable deleting on the basis that only an already deleted article was the source of notability--it's a kind of domino theory that IMO shouldn't hold in the case of speedy deletion, but clearly you and TexasAndroid feel differently. Oh well. Drmies (talk) 19:56, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Dashboard thing

 Done. Note that that line has the edit link - but since you have it as part of your page, it should be fine (mine is a subpage). I also corrected the Bad AFDs toggle, since I had the wrong number for the page size. Enjoy! UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 23:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hey, thanks a bunch! I noticed that the dashboard is bad for my RSI, though... More clicking (deleting), less typing... Drmies (talk) 23:49, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

• There's that, of course... It's a balancing act. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 23:57, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at Jim1138's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Some all-powerful admin wisdom needed please

So I don't know if you have been watching Wide left, but it is now a redirect with the full page history behind it. I'm pretty sure...meh, I don't know. I'm opposed to the redirect, but before I do anything stupid can I get your take on this? I don't know at what point I'm canvassing the original AfD'ers, but I think I can at least ask you. Nolelover ^{Talk·Contribs} 16:33, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

• Whoa, I last checked it a couple of days ago. I just looked at the article and trimmed the text some; it could do with more pruning. But I see that the AfD closed as delete--I wonder what happened. I'll drop a line to the closing admin later. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:18, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Hellno requested it, and...I'll let you figure it out. Thanks :) Nolelover ^{Talk·Contribs} 19:24, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
    • Fo shizzle. Well, let's wait and hear what Phantomsteve has to say. I'm glad I didn't postpone my little nap for this. Drmies (talk) 21:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Hotel Polen fire (again)

Well the FA review was going badly so I withdrew the nomination. And there is even doubt by one user that it's good enough even for a Good Article status. Could you have a look again to make sure that it also doesn't loose the GA status? My English mustn't be as good as I thought it was. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 18:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hey SpeakFree, that probably applies to my English as well. I thought it was good enough. No, your GA status will not be lost, so don't worry about that: it would have to be relisted and the status removed, but I don't see that happening. At any rate, if I forget to keep an eye on it, drop me a line if something happens. On another note: while you're sitting there freezing your butt off, I'm outside in the sun! I could wear shorts today! Drmies (talk) 19:13, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm officially jealous. Luckily the heater is working properly. :) S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 23:01, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

btw ..

thank you. :) — Ched :  ?  19:27, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

• What did I do, Ched? I hope I said something nice about you somewhere since I think you deserve it. Drmies (talk) 21:28, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Let me guess: you helped with this monumental task, Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/PumpkinSky. Thank you! If Ched meant something else he should say so. Others also though that he deserves it, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, I guess I need to go see if it's done yet. Frau Arendt, I saw your name all over that page also, so thank you as well. I hope you aren't too depressed about the situation, but I understand that that can be difficult. Drmies (talk) 21:50, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I practised when BarkingMoon disappeared and I screamed with Luther, now Bach made history with a gentler view, "With peace and joy I depart". The last edit of BarkingMoon was taking "my" cantata to prep that speaks of "brotherly devotion", the irony of that is quite unforgettable, and yes, it's depressing how little of "brotherly devotion" I see looking at AN. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:32, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

You (Drmies) had posted a "you can trust me" comment that made me feel good. I didn't catch it right away, and just wanted to drop a thank you for that. I think a lot of people are feeling very hurt, vulnerable, and isolated at the moment; and it's not a situation that's very encouraging. — Ched :  ?  05:15, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I do think a lot of people are feeling that way, yes--at the copyright desk, at DYK, at FA... I've been going through Pumpkin's stuff, and I have to give him credit for writing so many articles. I personally take pleasure in interacting with a bunch of nice, creative, and hardworking people, but yes, there's a bunch of stuff going on that doesn't make anyone happy. Hey, thanks for stopping by. It's always nice to see you. Drmies (talk) 05:23, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Your Comments To Me

Look, it's not my intent to "attack" other editors, and *IN FACT* that's *NOT* what I did. What I did do is point out that this editors comments on my talk page where aggressive and nonconstructive. This is not an attack, and really it's a stretch to even consider it an attack. It is, rather, me pointing out that this editor's comments on my talk page were aggressive, and nonconstructive. I'm not going to get into a snit that will ultimatly result in my account being banned because some editor who likes to throw around their admin authority has thin skin and can't carry on a civil discussion. But, and it's only my suggestion that I'm sure you will ignore, civil discussion works a lot better than threats. =//= Johnny Squeaky 22:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

• I call bullshit. Your account won't be "banned", but if you keep this up you will find yourself blocked. BTW, tedder happens to be one of the nicest and friendliest people around--that you chose to cuss them out is incomprehensible to me. Drmies (talk) 22:25, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Banned is essentially the same as blocked. PLEASE STOP THREATENING ME. I am ***ALWAYS*** open to constructive criticism that is polite. I think you should consider that sharp and threatening criticism is RARELY take well, and RARELY achieves what you want. =//= Johnny Squeaky 22:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Stop yelling. I've tried talking with you already (see the history of your talk page). You've been offered plenty of polite and constructive criticism--now it's simply time to a. take that advice to heart and b. stop playing the victim. Oh, and you should go and apologize to tedder. Drmies (talk) 22:38, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

RFA

Many thanks for your kind words! Regards, GiantSnowman 22:53, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

• Well, I really do feel bad because I meant to give you my support and then I forgot--next time I look it's over already. So it was short and sweet--congrats again. Also I meant to ask you how that RfC of ours was going: I forgot the dude's name. Drmies (talk) 02:30, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

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Amar Kanwal

Hi, I note your comment on the removel of the speedy deletion tag from the above article. Sadly having been editing Wikipedia for a few years now I have seen articles deleted under A7 where notability has been very clearly established, and have seen articles kept under A7 where notability is about as far off as Outer Mongolia. I have now come to the conclusion that successful deletion under this category has less to do with Wikipedia policy, and more to do with personal opinion. So when the originating editor challenged that they had quite clearly made claims of notability but had not backed them up with references yet I decided to have the A7 tag removed. Feel free to add it again if you feel the article meets the criteria. -- role^player 13:31, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

• I disagree on this personal opinion argument, but I thought I should give the editor(s) a chance to prove their point. And in this case, I think it's fine to remove the tag, if you explain why you did. Drmies (talk) 15:19, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Charleston Female Seminary

Hello! Your submission of Charleston Female Seminary at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Orlady (talk) 04:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Wide left

Dunno if you saw, but I nominated the redirect for discussion. Eagles 24/7 (C) 05:52, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks Eagles. Hey, Madonna is still steaming hot. Drmies (talk) 14:53, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, for Lady Gaga's mother. Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:47, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Eagles, I'm going to warn you for a BLP violation. I only wish we had a Template:uw-blasphemy4im. Drmies (talk) 18:52, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Heh. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Question

	Question
	So...remember that page called "Deadly Film Productions" that you deleted yesterday? Perhaps you could inform me as to why you destroyed it? Could a friendly notice as to what else I needed not also suffice? Or did you simply not notice what was needed, as you deemed it unworthy of existence just by skimming it? So what was up? Spurs Spursofvengeance (talk) 06:25, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

If I may respond to your question (as Drmies is likily sleeping), but you will find the answers at this message on your talk page and this message on your talk page. On a related note, nice trophy! --kelapstick^(bainuu) 07:14, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

It's not as good as that literary award we found a couple of years ago. Drmies (talk) 23:41, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

RE: UserKoshVorlon/JFF

Drmies, that template's a spoof on Mustafa's old spice commercials. It's meant to be a humorous poke at vandals. I don't use it a lot, but every once and a while I pull it out. The individual that gets that has to have been warned multiple times, and they have to have vandalized after mutliple warings to get it. I don't intent to retire it yet, but , again I don't use it for everyone, just the deserving few  :) @-Kosh► Talk to the Vorlons►Moon Base Alpha-@ 19:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, I know what it is; those commercials were great. I just don't think it's very helpful. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Incidental, related, but irrelevant trivia: I have some very avant-garde chairs which I refer to as the Vorlon chairs due to their resemblance (at least in my mind) to Kosh. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 20:31, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• I guess I'm the only person in the world who doesn't get sci-fi references. Then again, there were people in my class today who didn't know who Neil Young is. Mandarax, those must be some pretty ugly chairs. Aren't you afraid to sit on them? Do they probe? Drmies (talk) 20:37, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• The Neil Young thing is shocking and appalling. I miss a lot of sci-fi references too, such as when people talk about that frakking Battlestar Galactica. The Vorlon chairs are quite arty and I think they're very beautiful. Their shape is abstractly Vorlonesque, but they don't have that distinctive Vorlon coloring; rather, they're got a very subtle black on black pattern. Oh, and pardon my imprecision; when I refer to a Vorlon's shape or coloring, I'm actually referring to the characteristics of their encounter suit. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:03, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• You're just messing with me, Mandarax, with your encounter suit. You want me to read the article--well, I got a copy of the Aeneid and Death in Venice here, so fat chance. Drmies (talk) 21:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Bah! Who reads anymore? No, you should watch the entire brilliant Babylon 5 series. Some episodes are available for free online viewing. Oh, and in the unlikely event you don't care for it at first, stick with it. The entire series unprecedentedly follows an amazing story arc. And, yes, I know that you probably won't watch, but your talk page has lots of watchers, so hopefully my proselytizing will be fruitful. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 22:34, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Don't bah me, you big pooh-bear. I'll watch it when you poke me on Facebook. You know, I'm approaching 100,000 edits, and I got dinner to cook--when do you think I ever have time for TV watching? I watched Madonna yesterday and that's just about as much time as I have. Drmies (talk) 23:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, I've been noticing your impressive edit count. Congrats on the upcoming milestone. Oh, and to add a little to that count, I think you may have intended to say something other than "I am sorry to feel this way" in your response two threads below (and feel free to delete this sentence). MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 23:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• LOL! I love how you corrected it in two, numbered, edits! Classic comedy. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 01:11, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• All for you, my dear Mandarax--and for the hunt for your edit count. I don't think ANI edits count, do they? ;) Drmies (talk) 01:23, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

<---We have an open-mike program for the teens, and the department staff have to participate as well. After Mary Travers died, N. sang "Leaving on a Jet Plane" in her memory; the teens had no idea what N. was talking about. LadyofShalott 00:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• Whoa, I didn't know she was dead. But, ahem, N.? Is this your not-so secret admirer? I'm going to have to bring Weld to class. I actually have the video, by which I mean VHS. Drmies (talk) 00:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, that was a sad day. as for your question... I had dinner with N. and her husband last night. (In other words, no.) :) LadyofShalott 00:42, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
    • Lady, I'm not even going to go there. Americans are perverted people, but I do hope dinner was tasty. Hey, I'm listening to Rosie sing to herself in the tub ("Water is dropping on my poo-poo foot..."). Earlier today Sip and I jumped in outside--brrr! I think we should have a wiki-meet at my house--where, of course, we discover that you and I are the best-looking of the bunch. Drmies (talk) 00:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hah! It was - we went to a good Mexican place... which reminds me: I have leftover chile relleno to eat. That's cute (if an odd choice of wording, hehe). You and you cold-water dips - you can keep those, but I think you should definitely plan that meet-up! (BTW, I saw the female seminary discussion, but probably won't do anything substantive tonight on it.) LadyofShalott 01:09, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Sonorous Entertainment Inc.

Drmies I recently submitted the article Sonorous Entertainment Inc. that was deleted by you. I have recreated the article and would like to resubmit it. I have been instructed to contact the deleting administrator before I recreate this page, can you please explain to me the purpose of this? Thank you Bkovacs74 (talk) 21:16, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• Well, on the face of it, it's a good idea to do that lest the article be deleted again quickly. Let me look. Drmies (talk) 00:30, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
• Wait--are you talking about FrostByte Media Inc.? That certainly lacks some of the not-so-good parts of Sonorous ("The core of Sonorous' vision is to bring glory and honor to God by partnering with artists and empowering them to reach the world with a life-changing message."), but it does not seem like something that's notable by our standards. Still, good luck with it. Drmies (talk) 00:33, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Drmies I thank you and respect you for your feedback on FrostByte Media Inc. I am confused as to what you mean by not notable by our standards. The layout for FrostByte was the same layout used for another independent record label listed on this website. I have submitted a new version of Sonorous Entertainment for you to review, again I stayed within the same layout as mentioned above. I look forward to your feedback.Bkovacs74 (talk) 15:25, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I personally know Holocaust survivors, I do not want to talk with someone associated with National Socialism

I personally know Holocaust survivors. I told Lihaas exactly why I don't want to talk with him. Acknowledging to him that the Holocaust happened, that I personally know Holocaust survivors, and because of my moral dispositions I do not want to talk with them is completely acceptable. I told you, I DO NOT WANT to talk with Lihaas. I am strongly opposed to National Socialism that he declares in his user box to be supportive of, and I do not want to talk with a National Socialist because I have heard enough from the one survivor who has told me, crying at times, in depth what he witnessed - his friend being bludgeoned to death with shovels by Nazi guards at Treblinka. I have a strong sympathy for this man and Jews who suffered from Nazism and thus a strong stance against Nazism for what it did - to people I have known - do you still feel that I deserve the threat of block for personal attacks towards a person whom I initially politely asked for him to leave me alone? What if I was a Jew being harassed in the same way - would you just follow the book and say "you offended this user" - without understanding the magnitude of the issue at hand - an ideology that killed millions of people because of their ethnicity?! Is there any morality on Wikipedia anymore or is it just following the rules by the book? If it is just by the book with no conscience, don't worry about trying to ban me, I will LEAVE Wikipedia. I am normally quite calm on issues, I will not tolerate harassing posts by a National Socialist - if you have any understanding of the sympathy I have held to the Jewish family in question that I have known whose grandfather suffered torture, slave labour, starvation, witnessing his friend be beaten to death, watching people die from starvation at Treblinka, and his suffering from PTSD - perhaps then you would understand my concious and subconcious (that I cannot control) disgust with National Socialism and a desire to not associate or with anyone associated with that ideology.--R-41 (talk) 21:28, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I've quit Wikipedia, I worked here for five years without problems, without a block until now - I cooperatively worked with others, helped resolve disputes, helped stop users fighting with each other. Go ahead block me, ban me, call me anything you want to - a drama queen, a diva, anything for what I have said or what I am about to say, because it won't matter, after this I am gone from Wikipedia forever. I think your administrative action to threaten me with block over Lihaas was incompetent and completely unaware of the background of WHY I do not want to talk to a National Socialist that I described to you and others at the administrator's noticeboard repeatedly - that you ignored - your action was incompetent, and given recent events, I've had it with the moral negligence I have just witnessed. So thanks a lot, I now know that I wasted five years of my life on Wikipedia, including creating the entire page Kingdom of Italy (1861–1946) and vastly expanding the Fascism and Marxism-Leninism articles - I gave Wikipedia of indepth study from university books that I've used at my university on these three topics to Wikipedia for free - a big waste of my talent as I see now - go aheard and call me a diva or whatever nasty remark you want to reply - I respect my labours that I gave to Wikipedia, and I have grown to see that some people do not respect what I have done. Good bye.--R-41 (talk) 22:32, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

• R-41, I am sorry you feel this way. But again, there was no proof that the user was actually harassing you. Their userbox, that's an irritating thing, but having one is not the same as harassing another editor. You don't have to repeat that you don't want to talk to them--first of all, you told them so on their talk page, and second, no one is forcing you to talk to them. As for that user's nazi box, they had so many dumb and contradictory boxes that one can hardly take them seriously. I mean, the main image was a flag of Bahrein--whatever that's supposed to mean. Other editors have, in the meantime, blanked that page, and I have proposed it for deletion, which is a proper and acceptable way to deal with such a problem.
  I hope you'll reconsider your decision. Thinking that the community here is insensitive to such issues is not correct, but it is clear that other editors did not see sufficient evidence of harassment, and detail about knowledge of Holocaust survivors does not strengthen that argument. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 23:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

ec at AN/I

Re [3] I was trying to close this somehow at AN/I but kept getting edit conflicts. I'm glad someone got through. If EITHER one of them persists in this, they need to get slapped with an AN/I topic ban.VolunteerMarek 00:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• Ha, I got a few of my own. Yes, high time that ends, all of that. But you can't give Bugs an ANI ban--it would be the end of him, and I like him. Well, I haven't looked at it in five minutes; let's see how much more threads got opened. *lock and load* Drmies (talk) 00:38, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
• Come on Marek--this is uncalled for. Please retract. Drmies (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm too disgusted by this to retract at the moment. Baseball Bugs deserves a full fledged topic ban from all drama pages. Yes, that would be the end of his contributions - but that sort of illustrates why it's necessary.VolunteerMarek 00:55, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Note

Look who I found on Commons.

I know this is liable to sound crazy, but sometimes I assume too much faith for my own good - that if I can just explain something to someone, that they'll understand. At some point, my dim bulb comes on and I realize that no amount of explaining will work. At that point, my good faith assumption melts away. These things happen sometimes. :( ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:48, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hey, what can I say. ANI is a tricky place, but you knew that already. Critical mass of any kind is easily reached. Maybe an extra app, with triple Wikilove buttons, could be a game changer. Drmies (talk) 03:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

RE: Interaction with R-41

yep will do, no intention either. tried to help me see that for future reference. and sorry for blowinf up like that ;) just been through this before and feared it ;)Lihaas (talk) 02:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Harassment_by_User:Lihaas NPA as an admin?

Also the delayed reply as a reason to support removal? Is it exacting revenge?Lihaas (talk) 05:11, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry, Lihaas, but I am not sure what you're talking about. That thread is closed, and should remain closed as far as I'm concerned. Drmies (talk) 05:16, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Not opening it, also not intending this as an NPA or something if its misintepreted. There was a "Stupid" judgement call without a query ;)Lihaas (talk) 05:17, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Odd statement? and more NPA. But to be frank, i hadnt replied because i didnt want more fights, but i should have. it was quite fair, but i had basd past experience.Lihaas (talk) 05:59, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

A beer for cleaning up RPP

Same as last time. After a long period of work you deserve this. Jasper Deng (talk) 04:56, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hey, I appreciate it, and I appreciate the note on ANI as well. It's just not a page I look at regularly enough, so a reminder is always welcome. Drmies (talk) 04:59, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I didn't understand your reason for undoing my changes

You claimed that sites like wikiislam.net or religionofpeace.com aren't reliable. Forget about Religionofpeace for now. May I know if you had any logical explanation for such a radical conclusion? or Is it just another grotesque way of appeasing Islamists?

Just tell me, will you? Wikiislam is also a wiki. Have you even read the core articles of wikiislam thoroughly?

I bet no! Maybe some of wikiislam's articles need improving, but so do many articles of wikipedia! Does it make wikipedia unreliable altogether?

I hate Dishonesty mind you!

If wiki-islam, despite using the exact same software and following similar protocols as any other wiki, is not reliable or notable, then how come wiki-pedia is going around claiming to be a trust-worthy encyclopaedia?

Are you indirectly saying that No wiki is reliable or notable? If that's so then what's your problem with wiki-islam, in the first place?

Please for Goodness' sake be honest and respond to me. —Barry4u4ever 08:50, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I believe Drmies is offline. Please read Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources. Wikis, including Wikipedia itself, are not considered to be reliable sources for the purpose of adding material to articles. The reason we hope people will trust the information they find here is that we back up all important or controversial facts with citations from reliable sources -- books, journals, newspapers, etc. Wikis, blogs and other self-published sources are not considerd to be reliable, so the removal of the material you added was proper. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:03, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you BMK. Drmies (talk) 15:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

"are not considered to be reliable sources" -—fully agreed! But no one (not me at least) is talking about using wikiislam as a reliable source per se. The subject was criticism of Islam and I was redirecting readers where they might get more knowledge about the subject. I am rather interested in the credibility of the protocol of the website. Wikiislam was referred to as a "reliable website" and not intrinsically as a SOURCE. It has very reliable sources just as you mentioned -- books(mostly QURANIC VERSES, HADITHS, tafsirs), and very nominal amount of personal opinion (less than what some of the articles of wikipedia have).

I am more than happy to argue with you regarding wikiislam's credibility. BUT PLEASE DON'T FEED ME THIS NONSENSE THAT WIKIISLAM IS NOT RELIABLE OR NOTABLE simply because it says something that's considered to be politically incorrect. Learn a little something here. WIKIISLAM, LIKE WIKIPEDIA, is just a conveyor of information through reputed sources. Try to comprehend my point. I'm not so eloquent a person! --Barry 09:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC) [note: this is Baristha (talk · contribs)]

That is the point exactly though. Wikis are not reliable sources. As BMK pointed out to you above, that applies equally to Wikipedia and Wikiislam. I take it from your comments that is an anti-islamic wiki? Well, the same would be true of a wiki called Iloveislam, or any other wiki you name. LadyofShalott 15:43, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• "Wikis are not reliable sources" --okay. Although I don't agree, I won't argue any further with you about it. Now I am convinced when it comes to truth, wikis are unreliable! BTW, I wasn't using the website as a source. I was redirecting people to another pertinent website. If you think that's not right. Then may be wiki should not have allowed the process at all. --Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• I'm sorry--why would you think that I claim it's not reliable because it's "politically incorrect"? Wikis are not reliable. Even our wiki is not a reliable source for our wiki. But let me address a specific edit you made, this one.

First of all, your edit summary, "to bigots nothing is reliable except for their own view," disgusts me, and it is a personal attack. If you wish to call me (and other editors) a bigot, be prepared to be blocked. See WP:NPA.

• DID I WRITE, "YOU ARE A BIGOT"? But now I'm all the more inclined to believe that. "be prepared to be blocked" who the hell are you threatening man? As though my life depends on it. I've better things to do than squabbling with stupid fools. Go ahead block me please. I myself want to delete my wikpedia account. But Wikipedia, for some reasons, doesn't allow it.

• ""to bigots nothing is reliable except for their own view," disgusts me" you should be disgusted but not with me, rather with your haughty way of exploiting your position as an administrator. BIGOTS DISGUST ME! Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• I don't give a damn any more about your inane threats. When others include downright false things and filthy lies with really poxy references about Islamic history, you don't get so hyper or be concerned about that, but when I redirect viewers to another wiki that not only follows the same protocols as wikipedia but is also dedicated to the subject at hand i.e. "CRITICISM OF ISLAM", you imperiously stop me from doing that. And then you start threatening to block me. "Wikipedia is not a source" who in this god-damn talk-page is arguing that it is? I used it as a website for redirecting viewers, not as a source.Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Second, someone who disagrees with you claims only their own view on Islam? Bullshit--I don't have much of a view on Islam, and certainly not when I'm editing here.

• "someone who disagrees with you claims only their own view on Islam?"--you are twisting my words. I specifically used the word "bigots" it's a tiny subset of world population.Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Third, the title of the section, "Popular sites" etc, that's some sort of claim about popularity which is unverified. Who says they're popular? (You do.)

• "Popular sites"--Firstly, You could have modified that very phrase for all I care but that doesn't justify removal of that whole section. And secondly, although not as popular as wikipedia, they are popular (visited by many people every day. It's not an opinion it's a fact. Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Fourth, you link to this article, for instance--a page that according to the site itself doesn't even meet their requirements (and, frankly, it's a poorly written, amateuristic, and underreferenced article--it has a list of other phobias?) Then, the site itself claims "WikiIslam's focus [is on criticism of Islam"], and that's just WAY too much biased already to be used as a reference.

• "it's a poorly written, amateuristic, and underreferenced article" --calm down I didn't write that article and yes maybe you're right for now, but since wikiislam's administrators are taking a look at that article, it is not absolutely irrational to assume that they are going to modify (just as you do here) or even improve it in the near future.Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• "WikiIslam's focus [is] on criticism of Islam" that's precisely why wikiislam is even more suitable for Criticism of Islam article, isn't it? And that's a bad thing according to you!Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I hope that answers your questions. Note also that I'm not the only one who reverted you, so either we're all bigots here, or you are not editing according to Wikipedia's guidelines. You may take this up on the talk page of the article if you like, or you may start a discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard about using this and other wikis as reliable sources, but I think I know what answer you'll hear. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 15:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• "using this and other wikis as reliable sources" --you're incorrigibly unmindful. I DID NOT use wikiislam as a source. I used it for redirecting people. How many times must I repeat that?

Sincerely saying, I'm deeply disappointed with your administratorship due to your utter intellectual incompetence and supremacist tendencies. I concede that I was as stupid as they come for ever believing "wikipedia is all about telling the truth". ---Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Where did you read that "Wikipedia is all about telling the truth"? Whoever told you that was seriously misinformed. Wikipedia is about presenting accurate information which can be confirmed by reliable third party sources, nothing more. "Truth" doesn't enter into it, and people who come here seeking to proselytize the "truth" most often up end blocked from editing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi BMK--thanks for stopping by; your voice of calm is always appreciated. I have no desire to interact with this editor (and I'm not competent anyway, I guess), so I've placed a note on ANI. Thanks again. BTW, what is this world coming to? I have supremacist tendencies (I guess I'm a muslim in this scheme?), and Santorum is winning all over the place. I am depressed, to cite Blazing Saddles for the second time tonight. Drmies (talk) 06:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• "Wikipedia is about presenting accurate information" --oh my bad. PLEASE pardon my silliness. I should have said, "I was as stupid as they come for ever believing that wikipedia is all about presenting accurate information". "Telling the truth" or "presenting accurate information" what difference does it really make here? stop it. Barry 06:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome to your opinion, but there is actually a vast semantic difference between the two. "Accurate informaion confirmed by reliable sources" is, as much as humanly possible, an objective standard, whereas "the truth" is almost entirely subjective. As an example, I would point you to any number of religions, all of whom profess to know "the truth", most versions of which are contradictory to each other.

I would also llike to point your attention to our policy on civility. Civility is one of the Five Pillars of Wikipedia, and your remarks on this thread have strayed several times into uncivil territory. Please keep things polite, and we're likely to have a more constructive conversation. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:31, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

AndyTheGrump said to me "shit-stirring troll: Fuck off, moron." on WP:ANI, Is that also a breach of civility? Civility yes? I am sorry but I don't think I've been adequately uncivil here. Or do you mean I have to be sycophantic? Barry 08:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I think AndyTheGrump's way of expressing it was uncivil (and he's been blocked for it), but that does not mean that I disagree with his evaluation. So far, your behavior certainly appears to be aimed at stirring things up, since you have refused to even consider the advice being proffered to you. You're either here to troll, or you're fundamental unable to understand the concepts being presented to you, or you're so incredibly naive that your worth to the project is, at this time, neglible. I don't know which one it is, but it hardly matters, since any one of the three makes you worthless as far as improving the encycylopedia goes. (If there's a fourth interpretation of your behavior, I'm willing to entertain it, but I think I've covered the groiund.)

One can only hope that at some time in the future, you might be more capable of contributing, but for now, I see no profit in continuing to talk to you, and my advice to any admin who happened to ask would be that you should be blocked from editing until you show some willingness to understand what it is we do here, and how we do it, since all I see from you at this point is disruption. Goodbye. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:45, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

2000 UEFA Cup Final riots DYK

Just to let you know, I've come up with a new hook for the UEFA Cup Final riots DYK which I think should be fine to use. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 15:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, I thank you for the improvements although I was expecting just a review of the hook I proposed. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 16:17, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• [ec] I did some more work on the article and proposed a new hook. I also posed a question for editorial assistance on a DYK talk page--I would like for someone else to go over my edits. Oh, are there articles for the riots in Charleroi and Brussels? If so, please add the wikilinks to the article. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
• I proposed a new hook because nineteen arrests isn't all that exciting for a soccer match, as this article suggests also. Drmies (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

List of Ror

I have been conversing with DGG and have referred to a talk page thread in which you were involved - Talk:List of Ror - & so think it best to let you know. See User talk:DGG#List of Gouds. - Sitush (talk) 20:38, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Elfstedentocht

Are you enthusiastic about it? I nearly got involved in an edit war about it. Thankfully didn't happen. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 21:33, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Dante

The answer to your Manfred question is at the Ref Desk. Cheers. --Antiquary (talk) 22:52, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks! Drmies (talk) 00:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
• I have Durling's Inferno (and wrote Robert M. Durling--feel free to expand), but not the others. I wrote him an email last week to say how much I liked his version, and that I was going to replace Mandelbaum on my usual syllabus for early Western lit. Drmies (talk) 00:41, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Mbhiii sockpuppets (including probably User:Dawakin and User:Trift)

The user who recently edited Money trail and a set of other pages is probably another sockpuppet of blocked user User:Mbhiii who has edited as other blocked socks such as User:Welhaven, User:Ritterhude, User:Siparuna, User:Calliostoma, User:Popsucketry, and many IP's including the 74.162 range and 74.242 range and used to frequent12.7.202.2. Most recently he seems to edit under User:Somedifferentstuff, User:Trift, User:Attleboro and now brand new user User:Dawakin. He has edit warred over Money trail, Preventative war and Redistribution of wealth many times. He has edit warred with many users in his various socks and basically keeps going until everyone gives up. When I've engaged him on talk pages, he reverts edits I've made. Can you have a word with him? Thanks. 108.115.214.51 (talk) 01:44, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• Sure. Hey, I don't really like these messages from IPs without talk pages who talk like they've known me forever. Why can't you add all these to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mbhiii? What good does my engaging a suspected sock puppet account accomplish? Get an account, acquire weight, and start throwing it around--if there is some special reason why you're acting like Deep Throat, I guess I'd like to know. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 04:13, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
• Mbhiii is a jerk--most sock masters are. We'll see what happens after CU gets involved. Drmies (talk) 04:23, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
• Could you provide evidence that the accounts are related at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mbhiii please? Amalthea 14:09, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your recent help

As directed, please see... [4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mt6617 (talk • contribs) 02:21, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Talk editing

Barry changed the times of his edits on this page diff as well as on the diff notice board. Don't understand just thought you would want to know. Jim1138 (talk) 07:58, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I believe it was a well-meaning but unsuccessful attempt at a signature fix. The user's signature, in violation of WP:SIGLINK (probably not on purpose), does not include any links. It looks like they replaced all of their signatures/times with "~~~~", trying to correct it, but only managed to change all of the times. Normally, I would inform the user on their talk page, but in this case I see that they've requested that their account be deleted, so there's no point. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 09:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, thank you all! I missed some excitement while I was snoring away, holding Death in Venice in my hand. <grin>I'd like to cite from an email I received: "dood, you get all the fun crazies." Yeah, you know who you are!</grin> Seriously, thank you all for looking out for me. I see that Baristha is blocked but haven't looked at ANI yet. Drmies (talk) 15:02, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

ANI thread closure

Would you please re-open the ANI thread? There were conduct issues being raised about North that were not addressed and the MfD was, in my opinion, premature given the discussion at ANI was just starting, which is why I didn't vote in it.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 15:54, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• You mean Wikipedia:Ani#Article_Rescue_Squadron_again, involving Northamerica1000? I reread the thread, and as far as I can tell it's about that list, and that's a matter that was dealt with. What conduct issues are you referring to? If there really are conduct issues which aren't confined to the very existence of the list, then it could conceivably be a new ANI thread--but then there as to be an actual incident in the first place. Even in the thread about the list there isn't really a single incident (or a couple of them) and no admin intervention was even asked for--so a "vote" wasn't in question in the first place. Now, if you detect a problem with a pattern of behavior, then ANI is really not the right place and you could consider an RfC/U. I hope this helps. Drmies (talk) 17:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I referenced an AfD I was involved in, though did not link to it given my involvement there, where the result is plainly clear. Even so, admin MBisanz, specifically raised concerns in the ANI thread about the list's use in canvassing.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:50, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

A point which was refuted by another editor (or two), and MBisanz did not return to the matter. Listen, if there is a specific AfD you want to complain about, then that's what you need to do: complain about that AfD. BTW, MBisanz mentioned one ARS comment: "I don't think additional keep votes without sourcing backup are going to help"--which strikes me as totally not disruptive. I mean, seriously, someone is telling someone else that if they want to vote keep they should bring evidence--that's better interpreted as "don't vote keep unless you have decent evidence for it." No, I will not reopen that thread. You may start a new one, at your own peril, and I promise I won't close it. But it better be worth it, or I am really going to have to write WP:Fluffernutter. (If you don't know what that means you can peruse AN/ANI activity for the last few days.) Drmies (talk) 00:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Mildred Lewis Rutherford

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:06, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Re Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive756#Personal attacks by IP user

Just FYI I've gone for protection rather than a rangeblock in regards to this issue; my reasons are in the thread (where I've had the barefaced cheek to presume to speak for you too - my sincere apologies if I'm wrong!)

For future reference the rangeblock calculator here is what I tend to use; you just paste in all the offending IP addresses and it works out the range for you in the form 123.456.789.0/xx, which you can then enter into the "User" field in the block form. Some /18, /17 and even /16 ranges (covering from 16,385 up to 65,536 IP addresses) are in force (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BlockList?wpTarget=&wpOptions[]=userblocks&wpOptions[]=addressblocks&limit=50) but generally only for proxy ranges and the worst of long-term vandals. Hope this helps! EyeSerene^talk 17:46, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks--no, I don't mind semi-protection, I guess, esp. not given the collateral damage that might be done, and I'm glad you quantified it. I am not likely to ever start doing those, since it would involve an old dog having to learn a new trick. (I will follow your links, though.) It is nice that this repeat sock has such a narrow range of interest. We couldn't do the same thing for that idiot who keeps adding copyvio links to Beatles songs... Thanks again, Drmies (talk) 17:53, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
  • No problem. I was nervous the first time I did a rangeblock but the internet's still working and Jimbo didn't explode so I guess it went okay. I'm not really a professional tech geek (and quite an old dog myself) so it's always a bit touch and go. It is nice of our friend to be so cooperative though - if only they were all like that :) EyeSerene^talk 18:35, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I am retiring from WP, but please apologize to me for the false allegation of personal attack, I have evidence refuting it

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Please read through all of the following, it is a clear revoking of the claim that I personally attacked Lihaas by "slurring" him as a fascist and a Nazi. I have decided to retire from Wikipedia because of administrators' mishandling of the report I put in, in which I took most of the blame for accusations that are false. Drmies, you accused be of personal attack after I stated to Lihaas that I had nothing in common with him because of his stated association with fascism and National Socialism that I refer to as "Nazism" as it is on Wikipedia. Now you and others claim that maybe he is misrepresenting himself - that he meant to say that he is a "democratic nationalist socialist" - - first of all he states on his user page that he is a fascist - and bear in mind that National Socialism as on Wikipedia and in many scholarly works is recognized as a form of fascism. If there is any question as to whether I falsely claimed he was a fascist and Nazi (in the sense of the broader "National Socialism") - look at this userbox on his page: User:The Ministry of Truth/Userboxes/Fascist The infoboxes repeatedly state "National Socialist" as "NS" on multiple infoboxes. He also has other infoboxes that support far-right ultranationalist political parties- that indicate even further that he is aligned with fascism and National Socialism (as in Nazism), such as: This user supports Jobbik. - Jobbik is a far right Hungarian ultranationalist movement with a paramilitary movement called Magyar Gárda (Hungarian Guard) - it is anti-Semitic - it accuses Israel of "buying up" Hungary and its paramilitary group attacks Romani (Gypsy) people. Hungary's former Prime Minister described Jobbik's Magyar Gárda it as "neo-fascist" and "neo-Nazi". This user supports Attack. - Ataka - Greek short form for National Union Attack - far-right Bulgarian nationalist movement - acknowledged by all parliamentary parties as a xenophobic movement and a national threat to Bulgaria's ethnic minorities, it known for hate speech, the Ataka's leader's son sent an anti-Romani email to members of the European Parliament - sniding that Hungary is "full" of Romani. This user supports LA.O.S. L.A.O.S. short form for Popular Orthodox Rally - a far-right Greek nationalist movement - it opposes any immigration from outside the European Union True, he has contradictory userboxes - it may mean he is politically confused or has mixed opinions. Bottom line, from the statements of his userboxes, he is not merely a nationalistic socialist, his userboxes make clear that he is a fascist National Socialist and that he supports multiple far-right ultranationalist political parties - two of which have promoted xenophobia towards ethnic minorities - Jobbik towards Jews and Romani, and Ataka towards Romani. When Lihaas started confronting me, I stated on Lihaas' userpage that I fundamentally opposed his views and do not want to associate with him or talk with him because of those views - that is my choice and my right not to be forced to accept unwanted postings on my talk page. I don't care whether he wants to keep them or not, I think he has the right of personal liberty to post his political views - but he should not expect everyone to respect his stated support of fascism, National Socialism, and far-right ultranationalist movements - as I said, I do not want to talk with a person who adheres to such views. I am preparing my final retirement from Wikipedia so please respond here, but I want an apology for administrators' mishandling of this, I was honest and stating what he himself posted on his user page when I said he was a fascist and a Nazi, his userpage says that he "is a Fascist" and that he "is a National Socialist" and his support of Jobbik and other far-right ultranationalist parties - just put those together in your mind and take note where the term National Socialism redirects to on Wikipedia: Nazism - and I referred to Nazism in its general form of an ideology and its continuation in a general form as neo-Nazism. Lihaas may claim that he does not support German Nazism, but when I first noticed these tendencies on his talk page - I noticed the anti-Romani, anti-Semitic Jobbik movement first of all, then looked on and saw the other two infoboxes I mentioned. He is a self-described fascist and supports the exact kind of political movements that advocate the very elements of Nazism that I find morally reprehensible in my opinion - I do not want to talk with someone who supports far-right ultranationalist movements that promote xenophobia - that is my choice not to talk to the person and my right not to have the person talk to me after I have told them not to.--R-41 (talk) 18:30, 8 February 2012 (UTC) R-41, here's the thing. You don't have to interact with a person you think you don't like. Going to their talk page to tell them you don't want them on your talk page sounds redundant to me and an invitation for trouble, even baiting--as if you're daring them to interact with you. If you find yourself editing the same articles, and you have a problem with that, then the obvious solution is to stop editing those articles. If this editor is violating policy by not editing in a neutral manner, that can be addressed in lots of way--but not on the basis of what the editor may claim about themselves, it has to be based on edits (that may include, and I'm speaking hypothetically, non-neutral language, racist claims, links to unacceptable websites that are passed as reliable sources, etc), and it's the edits that have to be problematic. Finally, On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog. You cannot so easily conclude what a person is from their userboxes, especially if there's a million of them, if they are contradictory, and if the user isn't able to clearly explain themselves: I can't figure it out from the posts that I've read. And again, it's not the editor, it's the edits--at least to some extent. Now, if the user page is disruptive one way or another (and I think it is), that also can be addressed, and it is, right here: Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Lihaas. And also again, if you have a problem with a user's boxes because they seem to hold a view you find repugnant, then why associate with them? I have a userbox pertaining to gay marriage--it's entirely possible that someone objects to that, but I wouldn't know since they must have chosen to ignore me. I vehemently support strict gun legislation, but I work with users who oppose that--I just don't talk guns with them. In conclusion, in my opinion all this his unnecessary. But if you can't work at a club where someone disagrees with you, and the rules of the club allow for people to have dissenting opinions... well, then that's not the club for you, I guess. I don't think one should leave over this, and I think you should wait until the MfD has run its course, but I also think that this wasn't worth it in the first place. I'm sorry if that rubs you the wrong way, but you obviously came here to tell me something and, hopefully, to listen to a response. Thank you, and I hope you'll reconsider. Drmies (talk) 18:47, 8 February 2012 (UTC) You accused me of a personal attack in the form of slandering by stating that he was a fascist in particular - I have shown you his userbox that states that he is a fascist. So he is a fascist in combination with being a "National Socialist" and he supports far-right ultranationalist movements like Jobbik and Ataka known for xenophobia - including anti-Semitism and anti-Romani - seems very natural to assume that he is a neo-Nazi, rather than a "democratic nationalist socialist" as some users are telling him to change this to - and even if he does not support the authoritarianism of Nazism as practiced by the Nazi Party, his other userboxes on Jobbik and Ataka demonstrate at the very least he supports the other core part of Nazism that I find morally reprehensible in my opinion - xenophobia - and that I do not want to talk to such a person. If you check what I posted, I politely asked him to stop posting on my talk page. No I don't have to interact with a person - but when a person continues to post on my talk page when a user does not want them to - the user have the right to ask them to leave - which I did - he failed to comply, and posted an aggressive post, so I reported him.--R-41 (talk) 18:55, 8 February 2012 (UTC) Your user page says you're retired "will not respond to further comments", so I'm not sure if there's a point to me responding. Anyway, as far as I can tell (you never supplied diffs) you asked them on 5 February, and the day after they responded with this and a copyedit. Next thing you know, we're at ANI. And here. And you're retiring. Sorry, but this has taken up way too much time already. You could have just deleted their message. Drmies (talk) 19:07, 8 February 2012 (UTC) I feel that I have the right to an apology for claims that I "personally attacked him" in my fairly polite post in which I stated that I had little in common with him and that I disagree with his support of fascism and National Socialism and thus do not want to talk with him further - as I said, my statements on his beliefs are all backed up as fact by what he has chosen to include on his user page. I had the right to ask him to leave, I told him why I did not want to talk to him - because I am morally opposed to some of his beliefs and stated honestly to him that I do not want a conversation with a person who holds such beliefs. I wanted an end to the conversation with him, claims that I was provoking him to respond again are groundless because my intention was for him to stop posting on my talk page.--R-41 (talk) 19:02, 8 February 2012 (UTC) Yes. Next time, if there is a next time, start by simply deleting the offending message. There's a useful essay for if you think you're being trolled: Wikipedia:Deny recognition. Drmies (talk) 19:07, 8 February 2012 (UTC) This universe is unjust. Poor Sigfried! (Or was it poor Roy?!?) Sticking his head in the lion's mouth and he gets bit. R-41, under an interaction ban, continues to rant about Lihaas, and the lion yawns. Not above vicarious enjoyment of some of the old discipline and punish,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC) Oh, Kiefer, so you post "oh the universe is unjust" and implied "get over it" - don't you get what I've said - I did not attack Lihaas - I stated what he posted on his talk page - and second, I do not want to talk to a National Socialist or fascist or ultranationalist because I personally knew a neighbour Jewish family whose grandfather was a Holocaust survivor whom I've met who suffered from PTSD. It is NOT a mere trivial disagreement, it involves my morality - I've told administrators this before, would you just trivialize the Jewish Holocaust survivor I know by saying "poor old Jewish man who was put into slave labour at the age of 12-13, watched his 12 year old friend get bludgeoned to death at Treblinka by Nazi guards using shovels, yawn - boring." I am sorry, but have personally known a Holocaust survivor, I heard him tell his painful stories - he cried in pain at times remembering them and telling them to people, but he wanted people to know what happened to him at Treblinka - that is a real person who I knew who really did suffer by real-life Nazis - so I do have a strong desire not to talk with people associated with fascism or Nazism. Sigh, perhaps people are so filled up with video games and movies about Nazis that they forget that real Nazis existed and thus believe that it is somehow trivial and wierd for anyone to have strong antipathy towards Nazism. Anyway, if your response is "get over it" "accept the National Socialist user" and according to you, ordering me to "clean up" his user page - if that is your response, to why I feel strongly on this, you would then be - I am sorry to say - a very cold person, which I hope you aren't.--R-41 (talk) 19:29, 8 February 2012 (UTC) (Uninvited interjection) R-41, you seem to be worrying at this like a loose tooth, to the extent that in your previous post you set up an imaginary scenario and then use it as the basis for a conclusion not so much jumped to as teleported to from another planet. I don't mean to offend you and certainly don't belittle your understandably strong feelings about the vile and lasting consequences of Fascism in the past, but how is any of this improving our articles? You've said that you're retiring, and of course you have an absolute right to leave whenever you wish, but from your continued posting you also seem to want to stay. I can understand why you're conflicted but if you do stay you'll need to recognise that Wikipedia isn't the place to impose personal moralities on others or pursue the righting of perceived slights. In the end that's a sure path to frustration, stress and ultimately self-destruction. EyeSerenetalk 19:52, 8 February 2012 (UTC) Since this is my page, I think I'm allowed the final say. Kiefer, R-41 hasn't violated the ban yet, so the lion can continue napping. EyeSerene, I think you hit the nail on the head. R-41, your behavior vis-a-vis Lihaas is kind of like a someone walking up to a neo-Nazi in boots and leather at a demo, way on the other side of the street, and saying, "Hey, I am really opposed to your politics. I really don't want to talk to you. Please also don't talk to me. I really mean it: I don't want to have anything to do with you." What happens is that someone's glasses get broken. And I don't get your denial: you did call them a nazi, and you don't know that they are--all you know is they have a user box that says that, and that is not the same thing. That's all there is to say. My next move will be to collapse this. Drmies (talk) 20:10, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Ladies Memorial Association

Hello! Your submission of Ladies Memorial Association at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Prioryman (talk) 20:23, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• Responded there; thank you. Drmies (talk) 20:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

If you're in the mood for something to do...

...take a look at this brand new account, just created today, clearly knows the ins and outs of Wikipedia, received tea from Mistress Selina Kay (I thought she was blocked?), removing sourced material on the basis that it's POV, blanking talk page of warnings, etc etc. Lots of signs here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, someone got busy (again). No, I think she was unblocked, as was Bugs--but honestly I lost interest in the case and that thread got too long for me. Not much to do unless you can figure out who it is and start an SPI... Hey, have you ever had Val-Dieu Abbey beer? It's one of the best I ever had. Have a great evening! Drmies (talk) 23:03, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I ran across User:Twomorerun also a few hours ago: removing Academy Award-winning actor/actress/etc., influential architect (on ones that were influential), et cetera, et cetera...all in the good name of POV. They reverted myself and about 6 other editors that tried to clean up their mess and explain that those edits weren't exactly what WP:NPOV had in mind. Also violated 3RR here, but then reverted their 3rd revert when they realized it. They supposed "retired" due to all of the "vandals" undoing their edits a few minutes ago. I'm sure they'll be back shortly under a new username. Altairisfar (talk) 01:19, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain this is a new incarnation of an editor who has a long history of such disruptive edits, but I'm racking my brain to come up with a name. That editor had the same characteristics: a general dislike of any descriptive adjectives in the lede sentence, and in particular any mention of awards there. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:02, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I looked at a couple, earlier tonight, and as it happened the article didn't bear out the "prominent" that was removed. BMK, I hope it comes back to you. Now quit yacking: only a minute to go in Duke-UNC. Drmies (talk) 04:06, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

If the article doesn't support "prominent", that's the article's fault. Cass Gilbert was probably the most promiment architect of his time, a super-star. Good luck with the game. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:15, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but I didn't know that--so I couldn't easily call it vandalism. You see, if I see something like that, I feel like I have to be triple-sure, since if I am sure that it's disruption or whatever, I need to act on it. I hate making a bad block: I've seen too many of them recently. As for the game: turn on SportsCenter right now, it's well worth it. I mean, it was amazing. Wait for the last seconds. Drmies (talk) 04:19, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it has long been the consensus that "<insert award here>-winning" should not be in the opening sentence, as it is not NPOV, and puts undue weight on that award. Nymf _hideliho! 08:14, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

My understanding is that holds only for film articles, but I could be wrong. In any case, I added two specific cites from reliable sources for Cass Gilbert being a "prominent" American architect (and could have added any number more if I had cared to), and Twomorerun re-deleted it anyway, just as he reverted every restoration done by multiple editors without a lick of discussion about it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 12:40, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, "prominent" isn't the same thing as award-winning, in my opinion. "Emily Elizabeth Dickinson (December 10, 1830 – May 15, 1886) was an American poet." Sure, and it's an FA, so I can't argue with the phrasing. I wouldn't want to insert "important" there, I guess, but then again--oh I don't know. Drmies (talk) 14:51, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

The other issue is action without discussion, reversion without discussion, no discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:04, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but we have no rule against that, specifically--unfortunately. It's an RfC/U matter, I think--but see Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Kolins. Nada. Drmies (talk) 22:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it's fairly standard for editors to be blocked for failure to discuss -- one cannot edit collegially (as required by WP:CIVIL, one of the WP:Five pillars) if one is not willing to discuss one's edits with other editors. Usually, the blocks are construed as "indef until discussion takes place" and then removed once the editor starts responding -- if they do. Not a punitive block, but an attention-getting one.

Doesn't matter, you're clearly reluctant to take action here, and I wouldn't want you to do anything you're not comfortable with (not that you would). Other editors are involved, and the situation with this editor will come to a head, and fairly soon, considering the behavior, the nature of the edits, the appearance out of nowhere with full wiki-knowledge, and so on. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:41, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, I don't think it's that standard, really--that's what I was trying to point out with the Kolins example: two or three ANI threads, a WP:FOOTY discussion, but little participation in any of them and no consensus to actually do something. If you are aware of specific editors who got blocked for being disruptively uncommunicative, I'd like to see them.

Now, Twomorerun is a different case. They retired, but now they're unretired (or started editing again), and the last batch of edits all come with summaries. True, many of them are produced via Ctrl+C, but still. Moreover, I am not convinced that their edits are bad or even vandalism (taken by themselves): some of them were reverted with reference to WP:OPENPARA, such as this one, but I don't think that OPENPARA explicitly allows or condones "pioneer". I also don't think that POV should determine that the word not be used. In other words, we have an editing conflict, IMO, and if there's disruption it's caused by the number of edits and a lack of communication, not by the edits themselves. Anyway, I see that there's activity on the talk page (not from them), and I guess we'll see what happens. But in my opinion this is an ANI matter (or AN matter)--an issue where some consensus needs to be reached before a block occurs. I don't mind being proven wrong; if some admin blocks I'm interested to see the reason and whether there is consensus for it. Keep me posted if you like, and my apologies if you think I'm a weakling. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 00:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I've tracked down where I know the editor from (see User:Beyond My Ken/Twomorerun) and as an IP he was blocked three times, once by LHVU and twice (escalating) by Barneca. Both sets of blocks were not for the edits made per se but for the editor's unwillingness to discuss them.

You're almost certainly right that this will probably need to go to AN/I before anything happens, but there's no way the project can survive if editors refuse to talk to anyone about their edits. I can understand cutting off discussion when it's no longer productive, but at least one has to try. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:26, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Interesting. Impressive. You have good memory. Maybe you should go somewhere with this--ANI again. Make a case, get a block, wait til it starts again, CU, SPI...then whack-a-mole. As you know now, I'm not going to block for this, but others might. Oh, you're dealing with some obsessive compulsive person, of course. Good luck, and thanks for wasting some time on me. Drmies (talk) 03:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Poor memory, actually, but decent research skills. Thanks! Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:29, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

OK, Mr. Researcher, now figure this out: Dancemomsfanweb (talk · contribs) made a dozen random copyedits (most of them incorrect), and then went on to what I think is their real passion: Dance Moms. Question for you: who is it? Or, which blocked editor is it? Drmies (talk) 03:36, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Definitely a sock: 12 edits to become established and then right into the main topic. Your answer's on WN (use tallbak below). Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:40, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Dance_Moms! Woohoo!.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Technical issue?

Have you any idea if the Toolserver edit count script is playing up? I've just used the edit count link for User:Dayaanjali and User:Kgorman-ucb, both of which returned the same output, ie: this and this. In case things should change, the full report is

403: User account expired

The page you requested is hosted by the Toolserver user soxred93, whose account has expired. Toolserver user accounts are automatically expired if the user is inactive for over six months. To prevent stale pages remaining accessible, we automatically block requests to expired content.

If you think you are receiving this page in error, or you have a question, please contact the owner of this document: soxred93 [at] toolserver [dot] org. (Please do not contact Toolserver administrators about this problem, as we cannot fix it—only the Toolserver account owner may renew their account.)

(I have inserted HTML paragraph markup in that quote).

I suspect that you do not know but you may at least be able to guide me towards someone who might. BTW, regarding beer mentioned in your comment above, I had a couple of bottles of Two Hoots yesterday. There is no article for it but the label claims that it makes you wise (as in "owls"). It made me drunk, and therefore I thought that I was wise. Not quite the same thing, is it? Over your side of the pond I could probably sue someone for that misrepresentation! - Sitush (talk) 00:25, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Omgomgomg, I see my name! I suspect asking in IRC would turn up an answer (or, ideally, would find someone to ping soxred to fix it.) Kevin (talk) 00:31, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

So Kgorman's account is expired? I'm not surprised--they were up to no good anyway. Don't know about the Hoots, Sitush--write it and see if it sticks (and there would probably be a disclaimer on the label...). The Val-Dieu is just absolutely amazing but it may not agree with your British palate. To the matter at hand: I know NOTHING about that technical stuff. Even Kgorman's answer is not in an English that I understand--"IRC...ping soxred to fix it..." WTF? Every page I open still takes a second or two to realize that it "Could not parse twinkleoptions.js", whatever that may mean. Apparently, Mandarax can't even fix it, or he would have. I wonder if I should block him for Incompetence. How could I bait the Mandarax? Hmm.... Drmies (talk) 00:41, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

NO NEED to block me. After that VICIOUS PERSONAL ATTACK I'm leaving Wikipedia FOREVER!!!!! Mandarax 01:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Nice! Drmies (talk) 02:35, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Shame on you Drmies. We don't bait the Mandarax. We worship, sing praises and give tithe so the Mandarax can rejoice at the holy Burning Man. I'm starting to wonder if you are a true worshiper of the Mandarax. Bgwhite (talk) 05:59, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

As a recovering Catholic, I prefer the term "veneration". As for tithes--I sent Sitush a tithe the other day (well, a tenner), so I've done my good deed for the year. The Mandarax won't friend me on Facebook, so I'm waging a secret vendetta against THEM. Drmies (talk) 06:06, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I may be deserving of that incompetence block. I've never done anything on Facebook, never had a desire to do anything on Facebook, and don't know how to do anything on Facebook. I've never liked anything. I've never issued a friend request and have never successfully found anyone. When you first brought it up, I searched for you, and found someone with your name, but it wasn't you, unless you have another job I don't know about. You suggested I poke you. Assuming I was able to find you, I have no idea how to poke anyone. I've seen some notices on my page that I've been poked, but I don't really know what a poke is; I assume it's a way of saying "I acknowledge your existence but don't really wanna talk to you". I'm sure I could figure everything out if I really wanted to, but I think you get the picture about how truly unimportant Facebook is to me. I've gone years without visiting the site. I've never written a word on my page or anyone else's, and I don't read most of what shows up on my page; I never put a photo on my page, etc. (Is "my page" even the correct terminology?) I detest the wanton lack of privacy which extends Facebook's creepy presence into other sites; I went to some other unrelated site and there on that site's page were Facebook pictures of friends, with the revelation that they were members. And Zuckerberg's piece of this thing is gonna be worth $38 billion after the IPO? Crazy! BTW, I didn't like The Social Network very much either.

Last year I did look at the Burning Man Facebook page to see everyone's angry reaction to the ticketing fiasco. Hmmmm, I should look again now to see everyone's angry reaction to this year's ticketing fiasco. Nah, I don't wanna bother. I already put my own views on that matter on my talk page yesterday. Two Wikirants in two days. I'll have to figure out what to rant about tomorrow.

Oh, sorry for breaking character. If you'd like, I can go back and reformat this. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 23:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Incidentally, Facebook competence is actually a necessary job skill for me. I frequently have to help people do things on Facebook, not to mention post things on our departmental page. There are definitely things I like about FB, but the changes they inflict upon people generally tick me off. LadyofShalott 16:31, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

User:Soxred93 (or rather User:X! has {{retired}} on it and they've barely edited in the last 6 months so I guess the error makes sense. It is pretty annoying thought that that tool is broken. Someone at WP:VPT may be able to help, or else someone can ask Soxred93 to login and give the code to someone else. SmartSE (talk) 00:38, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Also, see User_talk:X!#Why.3F. SmartSE (talk) 00:39, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh, they retired? Drmies (talk) 00:41, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

MSU Interview

Dear Drmies,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:

• Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
• Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
• All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
• All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
• The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 05:49, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

• I'll think about it. I might set up a secret Skype account for it, and wear one of those Mexican wrestler masks. Also, I'd like questions that are not overseen by HR etc--we just had a newly improved and approved set of interviews with a candidate and it's silly. I'll get back to you, Jaobar--I mean, Dr. Obar! What time frame are we talking about? When does your class meet? Drmies (talk) 06:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

ANI

You been mentioned at ANI here.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

• No, I was accused of being an inclusionist pussy, thank you very much. Drmies (talk) 18:44, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
  • You being a pussy is not in doubt. But, are you an inclusionist or deletionist? You have been called both. I need to know so I can hurl the correct insult. Bgwhite (talk) 01:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Drmies should really join the Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Making Broad Judgments About the Worthiness of a General Category of Article, and Who Are in Favor of the Deletion of Some Particularly Bad Articles, but That Doesn't Mean They Are Deletionists, as he really isn't a deletionist, or an inclusionist. Alpha_Quadrant ^(talk) 01:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• If Wikipedia Review is a reliable source... Drmies (talk) 02:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Friendly with any ARS members = being an ARS member? LadyofShalott 16:36, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
• Snotty's tool says the opposite, though. Strange. (Not.) Drmies (talk) 02:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Quick question for you

In the ANI thread regarding Mistress Kyle you mentioned "Discrepancy between crime and punishment". Would you be willing to ammend your statement to something like "Discrepancy between crime and preventative measure"? I ask becuse it's my understanding that blocks and bans are not supposed to be punative, but preventative. Please forgive me for raising the point on your talk page instead of nitpicking it on ANI as it's a minor point that really doesn't affect your position. Thanks Hasteur (talk) 20:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

• Is this really important? You know it's a literary allusion, right? Drmies (talk) 20:05, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
  • My object oh sublime, I shall achieve in time, to let the preventative measure fit the crime, the preventative measure fit the crime... doesn't quite work does it? LadyofShalott 00:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
    • Bloody hell, you literary types! I always thought that the single word which used once to prevail at the end of books might have much use on en-WP: Finis. - Sitush (talk) 00:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Responded on ANI

Thank you for your help on this, just need further help before closing. Nate • (chatter) 22:39, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Alabama

Friend!

I have gotten involved recently with a Facebook group of public relations professionals who are interested in "ethical" interaction with Wikipedia. One of the threads has revolved around an Alabama business topic. I am asking your permission to mention your username in the context of experienced editors willing to offer help to new users on Alabama-related topics. Other editors already mentioned include Mike Cline and Altairisfar. Warm regards. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:02, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Sure thing, Cullen. Roll Tide! Drmies (talk) 03:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Californians want to know - is the color of that tide "crimson"? Because out here, our tides are kind of seawater-colored. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
    • I would guess that it's a reference to Red tides, but why you'd want to name your team for that, I don't know. LadyofShalott 21:30, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of article with name AV Anand

Drmies, I had created the article last week and this was deleted by you under A7 category on feb 05th 2012. Could you please help me in adding this back. The person is one of the senior most Percussionist in the field of Indian music and has won many awards so far and has given musical concerts in US, Singapore, UK etc. Please let me know if any more details are required or if any details has to be removed from the content i had in the intial article.

Awaiting your response SrikanthOnWiki (talk) 08:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hi Srikanth, sorry, but I deleted it because it did not make a very reliable claim to importance, which I based on the tone of the article: it was far from neutral. I have placed the article in your user space, at User:SrikanthOnWiki/A.V. Anand, where you can work on it. But if you want it back in article space, you'll have to do a couple of things.
  First, and most importantly, it must be rewritten in a neutral tone. You can look at Airto Moreira--not the greatest article, but it's the first percussionist I could think of and the article is more neutral than yours is. I've added a category to the article that is appropriate, and in that category you'll find articles like T. Ranganathan--also not great, but it's a start. I've done a bit of editing on your article as well to make it agree with our guidelines.
  Second, it needs to agree with our manual of style--that means a grammatical overhaul and copy edits on capitalization, punctuation, etc. Now, I don't know much about this kind of music, but I noticed that some mridangam players compose ragas, and User:Hekerui knows a lot about that, and they're a real nice editor as well--nicer than I am. You may drop them a line on their talk page and ask if they can assist you a bit: Hekerui may well be interested in the topic.
  So, see what you can do to the article. Find some more reliable sources (like that article in Hindu), write it beautifully, and who knows, it might end up on the front page (tell Hekerui that there's a DYK in it; they'll know what that means). Thanks for your note, and good luck. Drmies (talk) 15:12, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Dance Moms

Thanks. I've tried for a while to keep that article reasonable but at the same time I didn't want to dominate it by reverting every change that I didn't make myself. I had already asked for the article to be semiprotected and it was but only for a week, up until yesterday. I had a feeling that it was going to go right back to the way it was as soon as the semiprotection ended and I guess I was right. I noticed the links added that you mentioned but I didn't have time to check them out yet. I don't have the time to keep an eye on that article 24/7 :( but I appreciate all the help I can get! For An Angel (talk) 15:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• Same here (re:24/7). I got involved again when I saw it had double in size (again) and was being spammed (see User talk:Dancemomsfanweb). I've never watched the show (and never will--as a parent and a human being I find such things a bit revolting) so I don't know which of the unverified bits of information are trivial and which aren't; I read it like I would a plot summary of a book. The next episode airs on the 14th: I will go ahead and semi-protect it because it will be impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff in the 500 or more edits that will happen on that night. Thanks, and keep me posted if I can be of help on this or any other article. Drmies (talk) 15:59, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I just glanced (pretty literally) at the page. Is it just me, or are the colors in the charts obnoxious? LadyofShalott 21:28, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
    • Not to mention it is horrendous for color blind people. Having black lettering on a green or red background can make it impossible to see. Bgwhite (talk) 21:52, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
      • The code already gave me a headache (ever feel like that dude in the matrix?). Feel free to change it! Drmies (talk) 00:43, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
        • I've never seen the show, don't know what it's about, haven't heard anything about it, and haven't read the article. I wouldn't want any of those things to interfere with my complaining about the show. Based solely on its title, I'd like to express my outrage about this repugnant show! And I didn't like The Matrix. I may have found subjects for my next two rants. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 02:20, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject Article Rescue Squadron

WikiProject Article Rescue Squadron Hello, Drmies. You have been invited to join the Article Rescue Squadron, a collaborative effort to rescue articles from deletion if they can be improved through regular editing. For more information, please visit the project page, where you can >> join << and help improve Wikipedia articles considered by others as based upon notable topics. Northamerica1000(talk) 18:28, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• That's alright, thanks. Drmies (talk) 19:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

From an editor

He [Drmies] also deleted my (important) page about the adware Play Pickle!! I even said I was working on it! And my account was barely 2 days old... D214 (talk) 20:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I was the second admin to delete it. You wrote on it, "NOTE: This is an article in progress. Do not delete it. Feel free to make changes to it or add more details." Well, when you submit something, please make sure it at least attempts to meet some of our guidelines. I wonder, did you read the note on your own talk page, which indicates that you had created Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Play Pickle a few days before, which had been commented on by another editor? Drmies (talk) 20:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Question

So... I need to cleanup the referencing in Mildred Lewis Rutherford, and not have the mixed system in place now. (I'm surprised no one has complained about it yet.) Do you know an easy way to do this, or is it necessarily going to be a PITA? LadyofShalott 21:42, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

• The problem is the Case references, which are the only "plurals". I don't know of a way to make them singular, unless you want to make them all into one reference for pp. 275-85. That's not breaking any laws, but it's not the ultimate way of doing it, of course. If you want to do it cleanly you'll have to move all the bibliographical info from the notes to the bibliography--that's not a huge amount of work, though doing dishes is more fun. If you choose the latter option, I can give you a hand with the busywork, but you'll also have to decide if you want websites and such in the bibliography or not (MF uses a bibliography only for books and maybe scholarly articles; news and websites he sticks in the notes)--your call. BTW, not everyone at DYK looks at that; often they're already blown away by the number of references in such an article. I happened upon a picky one for the LMA. ;) Drmies (talk) 22:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, I'd rather keep the more precise pagination for Case. I'll have to think more on the bibliography question. LadyofShalott 22:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
    • Hey, thanks for starting that work. Yes, she did write her own biosketch that's in that one book. That grammar goof was embarrassing. LadyofShalott 05:03, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

4.4%! My secret is out

I'd forgotten all about Snotty's Inclusionistometer™, thanks - that gave me a laugh. pablo 01:51, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• I'm very impressed by his tools. I'm sure he can make a ton of money, if he doesn't already. My results "make" me a deletionist--or, I just happen to vote "delete" often in AfDs that have no shot anyway, and my delete helps it over the hill toward a rightful, quick demise. I think I'm more interested in seeing if my "keep"s actually end up being kept. (BTW, errors are made--my Snotty results have me voting "keep" in one AfD where I clearly voted "delete".) Happy days! Drmies (talk) 01:54, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• I know it doesn't always manage to parse the results correctly but it's an interesting snapshot. Notorious deletionist Michael Q Schmidt got a shock, too! pablo 02:09, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Actually, I remember reading that. I note you made the same argument I just made: preselection. I don't go and vote "keep" on things that will obviously be kept; it's a waste of time ("keep per nom"), and articles are more or less kept by default anyway. Now, what's The Devil's Advocate up to in the meantime? I was busy doing something useless--Lakers-Knicks and Ray Butts EchoSonic. Article content: highly overrated, just like Elvis. (OK, how can you keep a straight face while calling that man "World Peace"?) Drmies (talk) 02:45, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

That Ray Butts amp thaaaaaang is a fascinating story, thanks for that. (You know that Elvis was a hero to most, right?) I know a bit about various guitars but tend to overlook amps, which did make a massive diffeence, especially pre-transistor. pablo 21:55, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• I believe this has to be one of those rare times when I disagree with you. It's my belief that an AfD nomination creates a situation where "delete" is the default, not the other way around. Certainly it's the case in other "XfD" areas, such as TfD and FfD, because the majority of the folk who hang out there are people who are generally inclined to delete. AfD is a bit more balanced, and the more publicity an AfD gets the more likely it is that the article will be kept. At least that's how I perceive it -- I wonder if anyone's done a stringent statistical analysis? I'd be very interested to see it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:22, 11 February 2012 (UTC) (Bleeding heart inclusionist, more or less.)

• Keep is considered a default because if there's no consensus, the article (and I think this is true in other XfDs) is kept. LadyofShalott 05:27, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, that's how I meant it. And if, for instance, no one responds at all, an admin should close as "keep" or, no consensus, I guess, which amounts to keep. Moreover, no consensus means keep. I saw a discussion tonight on numbers related to participation in AfDs on one of the ARS's talk pages, suggesting that participation may have dropped; from my anecdotal observation, I think this may well be true--and I also think, but this is a gut feeling, that sometimes this confirms BMK's argument: it can be really, really hard sometimes to find the right "keep" argument, or the right person to make it. A couple of times, that person has been me. Drmies (talk) 05:33, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• (ec) Sure, if no one responds, there's going to be "no consensus" and the article will be kept, but my observation is that the people who make a habit of hanging out at AfD are more often inclined to delete than they are to keep, which is what creates my perception that "delete" becomes the default.
  I could very well be wrong about this, AfD is not very interesting to me, so I don't spend a great deal of time there, but from my experience that's how it appears to me -- but I'm not going to place any money on it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:48, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, on deletionism (and Pablo, maybe you'll like this), see the history of Disco Fever, now at DYK. BTW, that article can do with some editing for style and fluency--do any of you feel in the mood for tweaking some prose tonight? Drmies (talk) 05:42, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Maybe tomorrow -- I plan on some imbibing tonight. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:50, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hehe, why do you think I quite working on it? Drmies (talk) 05:59, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

I failed, too; my time zone means that I had already imbobe and gone to sleep while you were discussing. pablo 21:55, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Talk pages

I've done some reading up about talk pages. Sorry about the manner in which an incomplete post occurred on your user talk page earlier. At the time, I didn't think it was appropriate to include the comment from another user that was above your post. Northamerica1000^(talk) 06:57, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Sure thing. I wish you'd simply start archiving your talk page. One other thing--it is generally deemed to be good manners to continue a conversation where it started. I'm saying this also because there is a-rumbling and it might raise up a storm that can land on your and on the Devil's Advocate's head, since you two are the figureheads. Someone could point at how you handle your talk page and claim it's an example of a lack of collegiality, of avoiding serious conversation. Just a thought. Thanks, nonetheless, for your note; I appreciate it. Drmies (talk) 16:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Jed Clampett's wallet

How is a redirect a hoax? PuppyOnTheRadio (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:48, 11 February 2012 (UTC).

• Because it's nothing but this. Drmies (talk) 17:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't that make it a G1 then? 05:52, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Judgment call--one man's nonsense is another man's gibberish. One could call it vandalism as well, but I'm trying to be nice. I'm calling it a hoax based on the assumption that somebody here is assuming that something on Uncyclopedia has any real-world value. Drmies (talk) 05:55, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, vandalism is probably fairly close to the mark, but with a purpose. It was used as an example of the value of stopping IPs from creating pages, and the value of having better monitoring. It was instigated from here in case you're curious. I have absolutely no issue with the deletion - just trying to get my mind around the differences between the two wikis in these kinds of regards. The oddest difference I've found is that Userspace is generally considered sacrosanct over there, whereas what I was doing (temporarily) in userspace was mfd'd almost immediately. (Yes, I know mfd'd is technically incorrect, but you get what I mean.) Also the fact that adding a template to a page under MFD-G7 will arrange for a deletion, as opposed to linking the page to another page. I definitely prefer the system here as to what we have in place there. And sorry about the IP editing here - just realised I wasn't logged in as I finished that last sentence, but I'm pretty sure you can work out who I am. 06:06, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

One other question that you may be able to help me with. Uncyclopedia has a few factual errors and out of date information. I've had a bit of to-and-fro in trying to make some minor changes but hit a brick wall relating to self-referential citations. I know that the guidelines would be floating about here somewhere, but rather than me having to go searching, could you point me in the right direction? (It's not the only factual errors I've found on pages, but given it's an area of expertise to some extent, it's where I'd like to start with getting my factual wiki editing.) PuppyOnTheRadio (talk) 06:12, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean with "self-referential" references. You mean references that cite Uncyclopedia as a source? The basics for references in the first place are at WP:RS. Without knowing the ins and outs, one can say that the subject of the article (as in this case) should only be cited for basic, factual statements and claims about statements. For instance, one can say "Uncyclopedia claims to have 50000 page edits a day" and give a cite for some Uncyclopedia page where that fact is stated. But you probably couldn't cite "Uncyclopedia has 50000 edits a day" unless that's found somewhere in some log as a fact. Then again, that makes it a primary source.... In general, secondary sources are best, always. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 06:24, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

just trying to get my mind around the differences between the two wikis in these kinds of regards Try this: Wikipedia is a serious, if sometimes problematic, attempt to create an encyclopedia, and Unencyclopedia is a piece of unadulterated crap. ... Yeah, I think that about sums it up. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, based upon the tone of my comments and concerns vis-a-vis your own, Beyond my Ken, I would say that Uncyclopedia welcomes new users who act in a civil manner and ask questions to clarify understanding, whereas you're just being a dick. Fortunately I've found that Drmies, as with most users here, has actually been civil and intelligent, and understanding that policies are in place on both sites, to the point where if I was to find that any user at Uncyclopedia had spoken to any new user like that they would be chastised, and potentially face banning. Of course, I actually believe that being polite is more important than grandstanding and trying to show superiority. It's a shame not everyone does. 124.168.90.85 (talk) 22:49, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, politeness pales in comparison to creating a useful reference work. That's what we try our best to do here, which is why content ported over from Unencyclopedia has no place on Wikipedia. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

what u mean is the ends justifies the means? Bouket (talk) 23:31, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reference. And you understood what I was referring to perfectly. On a side note, forums do generally reflect community consensus at both sites, and are reflective if changes that are brought forward by community consensus. These of course can be edited at any time, but often permalinks will give an accurate reflection of the status of a discussion at a given time. Even though his is not statistical, could this be considered valid citation? 124.168.90.85 (talk) 22:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC) (Sorry, my phone doesn't quite understand the concept of keep me logged in)

IP/Puppy, you'll be kind enough not to refer to Beyond My Ken as a dick here or, really, anywhere else. As far as Uncyclopedia is concerned, I know that it's a playground, and that's all I need to know. There's a million websites on the internet and I have no interest in contributing to any but this one (and my Facebook page). A discussion here on the merits of Uncyclopedia is a waste of electrons, even setting aside whether such merit exists--and references between here and there, such as that wallet thing, should consist of one-way traffic. If you like to continue hanging out here (on this page), you should apologize to Beyond My Ken, who did not say anything about you personally. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 23:38, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

i think your being unfair. bmk took the good faith statement trying to get my mind around the differences between the two wikis in these kinds of regards out of context and used as an opportunity to insult the other site for no reason. thats not nice and its not constructive. he ignored the context 'these kinds of regards' that puppy meant and just used it to insult the site. Bouket (talk) 23:58, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I also think you're taing a reference to MW policy to be considered a personal insult. No personal offence is intended, and if it is taken that way, I apologise for the anyone misconstruing my intent. PuppyOnTheRadio (talk) 00:54, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

• Bouket, thank you for stopping by--hadn't seen you in a while. BMK happens to hate Uncyclopedia, and I don't see what's wrong with that. Moreover, BMK only insulted a virtual entity, not a person. Puppy, that a policy and a cussword have the same four-letter word for a reference, that's not a coincidence! Nice try though--you'll get far here. (I mean that seriously!) And as for the differences and all that--let me just reiterate, for clarity's sake, that I have no clue since I've never to that site and probably never will...but I don't think you're a dick for hanging out there, and I wish you the best. Can we move on? Drmies (talk) 01:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Intersect tool

Hey. I saw you used the intersect tool in one of your SPI cases. I'd point you to this tool, which I find far more useful in connecting multiple accounts. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 14:51, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for taking the time, HelloAnnyong--I appreciate the note. Drmies (talk) 19:37, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Pasting old version of an article into user talk page

Almost the entire of this edit is a copy/paste of an old version of the Kushwaha article, regarding which the user, HistoryofKushwaha, was recently blocked for POV pushing/disruption etc. How do we deal with this type of situation, if we bother at all? I know that we can rescind talk page access but I am more interested in the issues regarding when it is/is not acceptable effectively to promote a POV by restoring an article into userspace. - Sitush (talk) 19:00, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, that was real easy (look at their talk page and history; I left a note with an explanation). Let me know if the problem recurs. Thanks Sitush, Drmies (talk) 19:43, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• Ah, I had not registered WP:FAKEARTICLE before. That is a very handy reference point, thanks. - Sitush (talk) 19:52, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

• It's very useful. MfD is full of examples, usually. Drmies (talk) 21:13, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

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Accidental Rollback

Hi. I accidentally rollbacked your edits because I had seen that you had removed a large amount of an article, but as soon as I clicked the rollback option, I noticed that what you had done was correct. I am sorry for this inconvenience. --GouramiWatcher ^(Gulp) 18:00, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

• No worries. The edit conflict messed me a up a bit, but no harm, no foul. Drmies (talk) 18:02, 12 February 2012 (UTC)