Talk:Masquerade ball

Jacob vs. Fabrizio, or who introduced Venetian fashion masquerade balls actually?

Was it Johann Jacob Heidegger or Fabrizio Persaliano? 81.182.172.84 09:52, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Need more links to modern masquerade balls to account for the resurgence

There are major masquerade events in North America and Europe that should be mentioned. Scribeofargos (talk) 03:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

News or academic sources that talk about the resurgence would be great, but we're not a directory. Listings of masquerade balls are inappropriate. -- SiobhanHansa 12:00, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Masquerade in Igbo society

In Igbo race in traditional African, Masquerade is an aspect of communication system that is of entertainment. In cultural festivals for example, masquerade were used to —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.207.133.162 (talk) 16:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

En regards to the Igbo; is it actually a Masquerade or some sort of Masked ritual? From what references I can find, the Igbo masks and dances are part of a religious ceremony that invokes ancestor and element worship. They're not gatherings where everyone is masked, rather the masked characters are more shamanistic in the religious regard. I don't think it should be included in the article referencing a "Ball"; which is a formalized social dance in the European context, although I do think a separate article on the Igbo and their mask rituals should be in Wikipedia; if you haven't created one already.

Scribeofargos (talk) 21:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Masquerade Balls

When You go to a masquerade ball, you have to wear BIG PUFFY dresses.With lots of ruffels. And only the colors of blue, brown, green,black, white, and yellow. AND NEVER wear shoes. this is not aloud beacuase of an old legend forom the 16th centur. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.113.83.90 (talk) 00:35, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge?

I just noticed that the Ball (dance) article is rather short. Maybe this article should be merged into it? --99.192.28.56 (talk) 01:15, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Celebrate is a verb, not an adjective.31.53.198.23 (talk) 22:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 16 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 17:29, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

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• Masquerade ball → Masquerade party
• Cross dressing ball → Cross dressing party

– We do have the article ball (dance party), where some of the contents of the precurrent articles could be moved or at least copied. However, both precurrent articles clearly are not limited to balls? Scopes seems more like party? We have several articles on different kinds of parties: Costume party, Toga party etc. Doesn't it seem like Masquerade party and Cross dress party could join this list instead, breaking the definition of the specific kind of party that is a ball (dance party)? PPEMES (talk) 16:59, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

• Keep Masquerade ball. I would have thought the types are are Masquerade ball, Fancy dress party, and Masked orgy, but who knows. Masked ball (redirects here) might be better. Contrary to what the nom says, most of the content seems to relate to things that could reasonably be called balls. There is a stronger case for the Cross dressing party perhaps - not sure about that. Johnbod (talk) 17:09, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. The common name uses "ball" not "party" for masquerades. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 17:24, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Is this necessarily a case where WP:COMMONNAME determines? Per WP:NOTFINISHED, may we establish that the scope of this article is not confined to balls? Even if most masquerade parties are (or are referred to as) masquerade balls, can we establish that not all are? The scope "ball" is a arguably an under topic of "party". We have plenty of articles where common name may be put aside in order to cater to a slightly more extensive scope, don't we? Consider the solution in this article as seen in Template:Parties. PPEMES (talk) 17:39, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is about a particular historical type of event that was primarily courtly or aristocratic. “Masquerade party” is not what you would call it - anything under that that name would be relatively modern and could be covered by Costume party. DeCausa (talk) 19:02, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Do we have sources that backup the assertion that all masquerade parties in world history until now were solely balls (or were named as such)? PPEMES (talk) 19:05, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

No, of course not. Nor do we need them. Johnbod (talk) 19:13, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

The point I'm trying to convey is that while all masquerade balls where masquerade parties, how can we be sure that all historical, present and future masquerade parties should be designated balls? Hence my scope and title concern. PPEMES (talk) 19:14, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

You’re coming at this from the wrong direction. There’s an article needed about courtly or aristocratic masked “balls” with their origins in the late Middle Ages/Renaissance. They don’t exist now. There’s also an article needed about modern fancy dress parties. They’re not the same thing although the latter may be a descendant of the other and some may be intentionally referential of the other. But they are two different things. One can argue about what those two different articles can be called (that’s just the sort of thing everyone loves to argue about on WP) but ultimately the point is there are two different topics. DeCausa (talk) 19:26, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

@DeCausa: Are you saying we need a WP:CONTENTFORKING of ball (dance party)? If so, why? PPEMES (talk) 19:30, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

No. Asking that in a pointy way means you don’t get it. Read around the subject a bit, and then come back here. DeCausa (talk) 19:59, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

We have ball (dance party). Some accidental properties can be attributed to a ball, many of which are shared with other parties. For instance we have masquerade balls - historical and contemporary - which indeed merit a text section there. Isn't the notion "masquerade ball" essentially a ball, and accidentally a masquerade? Then why should that accidental property not be dealt with an article scope which covers not only balls but also other parties where that accidental property indeed manifests? Why should the accidental masquerade property be afforded its specific article, when that accidental property - which indeed applies to different kinds of parties - could have its own article in masquerade party (or "Masquerade party" as a section in costume party)? Please refer to Template:Parties for an illustration of the taxonomy issue I am trying to convey. PPEMES (talk) 09:09, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - this article refers to specific occasions, that are historically referred to as "balls" not "parties". Chaheel Riens (talk) 21:35, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Are you saying masquerade balls are a solely historic notion? That we thus need masquerade balls in the 21st century for more contemporary ones? PPEMES (talk) 08:57, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. Clear common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:38, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per the above. Aoba47 (talk) 18:26, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Oppose for the same reason as Chaheel Riens. The article Cross dressing ball is mainly a phenomenon of the 19th and beginnings of the 20th century, and had a certain grandeur the word "party" does not convey. We are mostly talking about "A dance hall of a larger style, with an extremely elegant audience. Tuxedos and tailcoats, and full evening dresses", where the public went to dance the evening away. --Ecelan (talk) 08:17, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.