Talk: Zeno

Power

I am very impressed and surprised that the omni king is that powerful.  I mean for god sake no wonder that Beerus and Champa sucked up to him.  He has the voice of a child but makes up for that in his power. Everyone sucks up to him.  TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 02:34, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

Its all claims man nothing proven. Beyonder (talk) 12:25, May 10, 2016 (UTC)BeyonderGodOmnipotent

You of all people shouldn't be the one to say that. All Beyonder has, except for a very few things, are statements. The reason Beerus is Universal, is because of statements. Besides, it would be the end of dragon ball if he decided to destroy all twelve universes. Think about this, why was Champa and Beerus so scared ? In Monaka's case, he barely seemed even slightly scared by him, and only faked it. In Omni-King's case, it is genuine fear, the first we ever saw of Beerus Sama. I back-up and agree Zeno-Sama should be at this level of power..why can't everyone just be open to new possibilities ? (The 2nd Existential Seed (talk) 14:28, May 11, 2016 (UTC)The 2nd Existential Seed )  

Name? Zeno

Is Zeno basically another name for Omni-King. Beyonder (talk) 12:26, May 10, 2016 (UTC)BeyonderGodOmnipotent

Personality Self Centered

I thought that the Omni-King was gonna be like a somewhat noble figure, who cared about the universes and keeping them in balance, but then its just a complete dissapointment he is another jackass who destroys whatever he wants.  I mean, he destroyed 6 universes for no reason!  Overall, not happy with this self centered attitude and I hope he makes it up with his power.  TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 20:14, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

He's a stronger version of Kid Buu (veeeeeery strong), but still childish as himBH Ouji (talk) 08

14, August 5, 2016 (UTC)

Naming

I've recently learned that "Omni-King" is just a fan term and that "Zeno" is the literal translation, so shouldn't the page's name just be "Zeno"? -- • Final Chidori • Talk 04:54, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

There was already a character named Zen-Oh , in a Fist of the North Star video game. The kanji is drastically different though. Just a fun fact I though I'd bring up.  GokaiWhite (talk) 22:11, November 30, 2016 (UTC)

name

It's Zenō not Zen-Oh. thats not how Japanese works. and Crunchyroll isn't a canon source.--RexGodwin (talk) 11:47, October 23, 2016 (UTC)

• Crunchyroll has official subs, which is the best thing we have at present.--Neffyarious (talk) 11:53, October 23, 2016 (UTC)
• Crunchyroll is notorious for inaccurate translations. Therefore should not be used.--RexGodwin (talk) 11:55, October 23, 2016 (UTC)

Crunchyroll is not the best at translations and not a official canon source, I recommend to revert this until an English name is revealed. ~ Yon ~Visit my talk page! 11:58, October 23, 2016 (UTC)

We have an English name even though you and Rex both don't agree because you all think Crunchyroll sucks when it comes to translations, which doesn't matter because of the fact that it is the only source to have given us an English name. What does it matter if it is not an official canon source neither is youtube, saiyanisland, attackofthefanboy, etc. but we use them, so by both of your all's logic we shouldn't use them either.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  12:03,10/23/2016 

• Even if Crunchyroll is not "canon", and is not perfect at translations, it is still official, so it will be used over a fan's translation.--Neffyarious (talk) 12:05, October 23, 2016 (UTC)

My doubt is that I don't know if Bandai or Toei gives the script to Crunchyroll or Crunchyroll's admins does itself the translations. ~ Yon ~Visit my talk page! 12:12, October 23, 2016 (UTC)

• They do have the rights to show DBS though, so it's official.--Neffyarious (talk) 12:14, October 23, 2016 (UTC)
• Technically 全王 is actually Zen-ō not Zenō nor is it Zen-Oh and the most accurate translation of Zen-ō is Whole King not Omni-King or king of all but Whole king doesn't sound as good as Omni king 'Actionmanrandell (talk) 23:16, December 26, 2016 (UTC)actionmanrandell'Actionmanrandell (talk) 23:16, December 26, 2016 (UTC)

Co-Rule?

Wait, so does this mean that Zen-oh and Future Zen-oh are now going to be ruling the 12 universes together?  Or will Zen-oh just rule and Future Zen-oh will be  bystander?  TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 15:53, November 20, 2016 (UTC)

They don't really seem to do much in the way of "ruling" but they'll probably just play around and hang out, like Zen-Oh wanted to do with Goku. ー Arashiryuu0Talk 22:44, November 20, 2016 (UTC) 

Is he evil?

Should he be counted as an evil character? The article says has killed more people than any other character, and at least a large amount of those people had to have been innocent. He also almost never does anything to stop other evildoers, and only stopped Zamasu after he had been summoned to do so, not stopping any of the evil things he did beforehand. And he also destroyed everything, not just Zamasu.

So I think it's fair to label him as an evil character.

Killing people like that isn't evil, remember that Zen-Oh has the mind of a child that uses his power with irresponsibility, and evil comes from motivations and desires, not only actions. ~ Yon ~Visit my talk page! 01:16, December 15, 2016 (UTC)

Well, he did destroy entire universes because he was upset. I'd say that's evil as hell, and while I agree that he's childish, he's not irresponsible. After all, when he realized what Beerus and Champa were doing, he was going to step in and stop it, even pointing out that their jobs as gods of destruction was important. I'd say he just didn't care about what Zamasu was doing, TBH. He can always appoint new gods and start over, and he's essentially immortal (since he can't be defeated by anyone), so he'd have all of eternity to repair the damage.

Orion (T-B-C) 11:36, January 11, 2017 (UTC)

After the latest episode I think the case for him being evil is a lot stronger

Agreed, in fact, he's coming closer to acting more like Kefka Palazzo from Final Fantasy VI, and is already coming closer to being far more evil than Zamasu (any of his incarnations) ever were, if he hasn't already crossed that threshold by that point. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 16:05, March 22, 2017 (UTC)

After much consideration, I think he's amoral, but not evil. He's just a child, playing with his toys (all of existence in his case). To us, his actions may seem evil and random, but he lacks the perspective to fully comprehend what he's doing, and his status as a supreme deity just makes him detached and unable to relate and bond to other creatures (particularly mortals).

Orion (T-B-C) 10:46, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

You know, Kefka also was, mentally at least, a child (this is made clear in the Japanese versions of both Final Fantasy VI and the Dissidia subseries where he usually uses the term Boku-chin, which is generally reserved for very young boys, and the localization for both Dissidia games also have hints at this personality such as demanding that Terra Branford "play" with him while fighting her as well as whining that he wanted to play more when she fled. And his turning the World of Balance into the World of Ruin and later his attempt at destroying all existence has its similarities to a temper tantrum), yet last I checked, that guy was considered one of the most evil characters in the Final Fantasy franchise, far more than just amoral. So no, I don't buy that as a reason for him to not be evil. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:13, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Uh, Kefka, from what I read, was a straight-up sociopath who reveled in death, destruction, loss of life, and the pain of others. Zen-Oh does not.

Orion (T-B-C) 13:30, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure a guy who played a game that resulted in the destruction of planets 202 times more than qualifies as someone who reveled in death, destruction, loss of life and pain of others (especially when the point of that game IS to destroy planets), that and creating the Tournament of Power where the losers own universes are erased. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 16:19, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Did he, though? He thought the "game" was boring. And again, the difference in scale between Zen-Oh and a few planets full of people (if they were, indeed, inhabited) is so great, he is simply incapable of giving a fuck. Do you concern yourself with the lives of microorganisms? You can't even fathom what their lives are like. For Zen-Oh, it's the same thing. Everything is beneath him. It's not that he can't bring himself to care; it's that his status renders him unable to care.

Orion (T-B-C) 16:24, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Playing it 202 times would be far too much for it to be considered "boring" (unless it's one of those games like MGSV that have so many updates that it practically forces you to play it multiple times). Actually, under normal people, playing something 202 times, especially when the game doesn't force you to play it that many times means you get a kick out of it. As far as microorganisms, if it means keeping my eternal soul, yes, I MUST care, especially when if I kill someone, my soul is forfeit per the seventh commandment. And I can fathom what their lives are like, as some require extreme environmental factors to survive, others cause plagues, and still others actually benefit organisms (like intestinal bacteria, which is vital for digestion in organisms). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 16:56, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

OK, let's step away from real-world religions for the purposes of this discussion. Agreed? I'll address the rest once you agree to this.

Orion (T-B-C) 17:02, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Fine. No real-world religions, at least for this discussion. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:04, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

If you look at his face, you can see that he's bored out of his skull, and he even mentions the game is boring, if I'm not mistaken. He just has nothing better to do. He's essentially locked in a room watching paint dry because it's the only activity available. He's an omnipotent being surrounded by people who only associate with him out of fear or necessity (with the exception of his future self), but without anything to do. He's bored.

Orion (T-B-C) 17:18, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Nothing better to do? I can name plenty of things he could do that don't involve blowing up planets as part of a game, like, I don't know, watch GodTube, or read, or draw, or even write in a diary or something. Heck, even edit wikis if they exist in-universe. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:46, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

How long do you think he has lived for? And how long do you think eternity is? There are only so many videos on GodTube you can watch, there are only so many drawings you can draw, there are only so many times you can write "Today I sat in my throne surveying all of creation" before you want to blow your brains out... except you can't. You're an immortal deity, and a child. Stuff that goes boom can be entertaining, at first.

Orion (T-B-C) 08:03, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

I know how long eternity is, it's forever, to no end. And actually, "GodTube" was made by Gods, and Gods live a very long time (Old Kai had about a million years left in him when he sacrificed his life energy to revive Goku, and that guy was old enough as it was), so it's not like there are very few videos. And as far as drawing, there's actually a limitless amount he could draw. Sky's the limit, after all. He could draw spaceships, the human body, animals, he could even make UP stuff to draw. And reading? You know how many books have been written throughout history? Well over a trillion at the very least, he'd have a lot to occupy himself during that time. And writing a diary was just one example. He could easily write stories as well. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 10:51, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

One million years is nothing compared to eternity. Mortal beings cannot comprehend what eternity truly is. Also, keep in mind that this is essentially a child. Just because you thought of it doesn't mean he did/would. "Gods are not perfect. Even gods can learn and grow." (Gowasu)

Orion (T-B-C) 23:04, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

We're talking about a being who literally controls all of existance in any shape he wants. For all we know, zeno is the one who created the afterlife; heaven and hell and the definition of good and evil in the entire db multiverse. And is also the being who decides what stands as good and evil that king yemma enforces. He's above that, saying that he's evil is the equvilent of calling the Christianty God from the Bible evil because he made everything which includes the archangel lucifer becoming satan, aka the devil. 0551E80Y (talk) 14:12, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Except Zen-Oh has frequently conducted the exact same sort of actions that condemned a LOT of villains to Hell, thus making him a hypocrite as well. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 16:56, March 24, 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't apply to him. He's the one being that's completly immune to all of this. Every single thing that happens is for the beneficent of his entertainment. If he wants he could wipe out the afterlife heaven and hell if he wants, thus destroying the concept of good and evil. You can't apply this to zeno. 0551E80Y (talk) 03:54, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

Actually, it DOES apply to him. If you create laws, inevitably you ARE going to be subject to them yourself. And if I were to create laws and be in Zeno's position, I'd also be deeply terrified of even violating one law precisely because, no matter how omnipotent or omniscient I may be, I'd violate a law and then be thrown into Hell. Look at X. He's unlimited potential incarnate (the closest in the Mega Man series you can get to true omnipotence), yet he actually freezes up if someone uses a human shield (well, technically reploid shield/robot shield, but the concept's the same) in Maverick Hunter X, specifically The Day of Sigma OVA. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 10:51, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

It does not apply to him, why would he be afraid of thrown into hell for violating one law when. a) it's established that he'll never die b) The kai's claim he CANNOT be defeated by anyone, even by an immortal rouge god which he effortlessly killed showing he has the power to remove immortality. and most immportanly c). His universal erasing ability works on the afterlife as well, throw him in hell and he'll just simply remove it from around him. It's confirmed he obliterated future goku, bulma and everyone's elses souls in other world when he destroyed future universe 7 which took otherworld with it.

Mega man doesn't work the same way as dragon ball not with what has been established. The only thing zeno is subjected to is the multiverse theory style time travel dragon ball has that is able to have more then one of him. 0551E80Y (talk) 11:12, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

Immunity from Erase ability

Is it possible for a person to be granted immunity from this ability by Super Shenron? DBZSSJ3 (talk) 4:05 July 23, 2017 (UTC)

Sadism? Or just lack of empathy?

The personality section now states that Zen-Oh displays sadism, citing the "squish" line as proof of that. However, this is in direct contradiction with what we already know: that he doesn't understand the significance of wiping out entire universes. For him to be a sadist he'd have to actively enjoy the act of causing pain to others, but the fact is, he doesn't even understand he's causing pain. He can't empathize because he exists on a whole different level compared to mortals.

Orion (T-B-C) 02:43, August 27, 2017 (UTC)

He also spent his time outright laughing his heart out when he erased those universes. Last I checked, you'd need to be a sadist to laugh like that. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 16:35, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

English name (again)

The subtitles for the dubbed version of Super episode 40 spell the name as "Zeno." Lightning Laxus (talk) 02:19, November 12, 2017 (UTC)

Gender

Are we 100% sure that Zeno is a male and not female? After hearing Zeno talk in the english dub, it sounds more like the voice of a young girl. DBZSSJ3 (talk) 00:47, November 19, 2017 (UTC)

Zeno's innocence makes him dangerous.

Hi. I know it was mentioned Beerus mentioned that Zeno's genuine innocence and purity is precisely what makes him dangerous, but can someone tell me WHERE he said this? I need it for a debate I'm having, as the guy claims he can't find it even when giving him the Japanese raw (I know it was definitely in the Japanese version since this was reported here and on TV Tropes BEFORE the English dub of the episodes where Zeno debuted aired). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 16:37, 27 June 2022 (UTC)